Colleen meets Ross Allen on NTS1

Ross Allen interviewed Colleen on NTS1 during his "Soup to Nuts" show on NTS Radio, ahead of the "Balearic Brunch" series starting Sunday, 5th November 2023.

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Colleen Joined Ross Allen on NTS1 for a two-hour-long interview (transcribed here), returning on her life-long relationship with Music.

An English DJ who presents a weekly radio show on NTS, an online radio station based in Hackney, London, Ross Allen worked as A&R for the record labels Filter (Dorado), Blue (Island), and Domino. He founded his labels, Casual Records, in 2003 and Foundation Music, in 2020. Of course, these two know each other very well, which allowed for a heartwarming, relaxed and deep-diving musical interview!

Listen back to Ross' interview with Colleen:

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PLAYLIST

(1967) Moody Blues –Tuesday Afternoon (Forever Afternoon)

(1975) Silver Convention – Fly Robin Fly

(1977) Jonathan Richman – Roadrunner

(1982) Lene Lovich – Blue Hotel

(1983) New Order – Age Of Consent

(1983) Midnight Star – Freak-A-Zoid

(1975) Brian Eno – I'll come running (To tie your shoes)

(1992) Mr. Fingers – What About This Love?

(1987) Lola – Wax The Van (Jon's Dub)

(2000) Romanthony – Bring U Up (Floating Groove Vocal)

(2003) Moloko (Eric Kupper, François K. mix) – Forever More (Vocal Mix)

(2022) Lady Blackbird – Lost And Looking (Cosmodelica Remix)

(1968) Van Morrison – Astral weeks

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THOUGHTS & LINKS

I very often think about what drives each one of us to certain people... Sensitive as I am, I am very often driven by a Feeling, something intangible, something you can't explain with words, and it very often transcends the person itself. This is what happened to me with Colleen. Of course, you might think this blog is an "only praise" place. It is, but there are many reasons behind that reality, and the most important one is Music. But I won't go further in another "subjective" point of view; I will do better than that. Following the interview, I'll tell you a story supplemented with information that will, as always, enhance your listening experience. Are you ready? Let's go then...

The show's opener retains an ocean of information about Colleen. It greatly represents how careful she is about starting a set, a show, or an interview; it's all about setting a tone, an ambience, a rhythm, a feeling, putting Music on the only pedestal it truly deserves: attention and utmost respect. There you have it, you already know that you're going to spend two great hours!

Fun fact: If you listen carefully throughout the show, you'll hear that each time Ross puts his Mic on, the sound of the music slightly goes down ^^

Talking about her love for music, I just came to think about one of Colleen's previous interviews she did on Ant Bangos X zine where she said: "I'm attracted to 'music people' and vice versa. I'm not into the ego thing or playing the superstar Dj role and I think that appeals to the people that engage with what I do." I just love so much how Ross conducts this interview, he's so gentle, so laid-back, and so close; we feel he's loving this moment very much, and he transmits his palpable happiness to the listener!

As Colleen shares memories of her young years discovering music, including the Moddy Blues aforesaid album, I couldn't help but think how important it is to share music with children from a young age, and there are some albums which are greater than others to share with your kids, "Days of Future Passed" to me is absolutely one of them because as Colleen reminds us, it is a concept album and it has a story that a child can listen to, understand and keep in his imaginative life. We could also think about other records like "Quadrophenia", "Tommy", "The Autumn Stone", "Yellow Submarine", "Ogdens Nut Gone Flake" and of course "The White Album" (wait a little bit longer to share "The Wall"). All of these will draw the child into a Musical wonderland from which he will never go back! Of course, don't forget to share with your children some classical music, Beethoven's 9th Symphony is an absolute mind-opener!! This is how my parents raised me; oh dear, see the result? A blogger (laughs)! Also, Colleen sharing her memory of her first turntable, made me think that we all have our own cherished memories with music, listening to it, discovering it!

Colleen's first turntable must have been looking something like that ^^

Fun Fact: If you listen closely, you'll hear when Ross hits the play button of the 1210s! All of these small sounds really bring us closer to our musical friends (bringing up another extract of Colleen's interview with Ant Bangos X Zine where she said, speaking about "Balearic Breakfast" "As I'm broadcasting from home, it has made it all more 'real'. Sometimes you can hear the plumber working on the shower or my daughter in the room above the record library. It has enabled me to throw down the guard and allow myself to be who I really am". There you go!

Listening back to "Fly Robin Fly", I just remembered that vinyl compilations really helped me get into the disco era; if you love disco, then you must take the time to listen to the "Super Disco d'or" two-volume LPS. By the way, did you already pay attention to how wide the soundstage is on that track?!

Also, if you're a regular listener of Balearic Breakfast, you'll have noticed that Colleen played Mr Finger's "What about this Love" in another version, namely this one, which is, furthermore, present on her "Balearic Breakfast Vol. 2" compilation (read more about Colleen's passion for Mr Finger's 1992 album "Introduction" here and head over here for another great interview of hers she did for Dust & grooves (an absolute must-read by any means!)).

A real Kaleidoscope, this interview with Ross made me think about another interview I read online and that I included in this blog where Colleen shared her love for radio and how it all led her to host Balearic Breakfast!

Speaking about the loft, you always feel how humble Colleen has remained for all of these years. This, of course, with the fact that she is a heavy worker, absolutely motivates me to be more and more precise in the way I write the articles here, and, in itself, explains the existence of this blog. Another thing is that, whenever I listen to her, it seems there is always a lesson to learn... Colleen shared with us how much pressure she felt when David invited her to play some records at the loft because he only had two Koetsus back then, and if something happened, then that was it. True story: I bought a Koetsu a few years ago and when setting it up, my father was watching over my shoulder. And I kept saying to myself all the time,"That's a 5-dollar baby; keep cool". Suddenly, I touched the diamond with my finger, and my father screamed in horror. I immediately answered him, "Oh God! You're frightening me more than me ruining this cartridge. For god sake if you can't handle this, leave me alone, argh! (laughs)!" There you go, another lesson as to how to be "Balearic": elude pressure. We'll dive deeper into that subject soon on the blog, though; laughs!

By the way, did you notice that the Family section of the blog starts with an interview David Mancuso gave to Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton, where he shares how important requests were to him? I chose to do that to enhance the fact that, to me, it is obvious that Colleen has a musical "Balearic" background even though it might not be the "publicly acknowledged" one.

The last part of the interview shows how much "Balearic" it is, sharing memories about the hip-hop years and about François Kevorkian's importance in Colleen's life (with whom she had an interview during a memorable Classic Album Sundays evening), not forgetting about Roisin Murphy and other great people that crossed Colleen's life!

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Colleen Interviewed by Ross Allen

[Ross Allen]

Well, good morning and welcome along. You are in the Meltdown Zone. Ross Allen at the controls. It's another special day today. We have another guest for a Foundation Music Special, Colleen Cosmo Murphy. Welcome along.

[Colleen]

Hello, how are you?

[Ross Allen]

Not bad, not bad. You've got such a good radio voice.

[Colleen]

Oh, thank you.

[Ross Allen]

You should do a show on NTS.

[Colleen]

You know, I think I might just do that.

[Ross Allen]

A few weeks.

[Colleen]

Yeah, I'm starting actually. I think it's the 5th of November. I'm starting on 12 to 1 hosting a Balearic brunch on Sundays, a monthly Sunday.

[Ross Allen]

That is something that we wanted to talk about. I mean, your sort of list of, I mean, you know, radio presenter, DJ all around the planet. The person, you know, continuing on David Mancuso's loft parties and taking that vibe even with the cartridges that we have.

[Colleen]

Yeah, well, these cartridges aren't as high end as the loft ones. I can tell you that. But, you know, they're still great.

[Ross Allen]

No, no, no, no, no. I like it. And Compiler recently from the radio show, your Balearic Breakfast compilations, Volume 2 now.

[Colleen]

Yeah, I'm working on Volume 3.

[Ross Allen]

Nice, nice, nice. And you've done some great remixes. A brilliant one for me, which I have to thank you for.

[Colleen]

I have to thank you too, because that one did very, very well. And I really enjoyed it. And it was such a fun remix too, because I love Lady Blackbird.

[Ross Allen]

Yes, that was a killer. But more recently, Mild Life, Roisin Murphy, Jacob Gerevitz, which we played on the show and loved. It's kind of slightly more ambient excursion.

[Colleen]

Yeah, more Balearic.

[Ross Allen]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Izzo, Fitzroy, David Holmes one, which just came out the other week. And I'm sure there's a lot more aligned.

[Colleen]

Yeah, Shapeshifter is coming out on Defected next month as well. So more of a, you know, dancefloor filler. Hopefully. It's been working so far.

[Ross Allen]

If it's working for you, that's the thing.

[Colleen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ross Allen]

And then, you know, as you were talking about your love and the first track you played, the Moody Blues, and your love of the album, and one of the projects that you started quite a while back now was your album Appreciation Society, playing it on very high-end gear sound systems, the classic album Sundays. You're quite busy, aren't you?

[Colleen]

I'm a busy gal. I sort of like music. You know, it's just been the thread that's kind of held my life together, I guess. It's been my longest love affair. It's still going!

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. I think it's the one that doesn't end.

[Colleen]

Yeah. Hopefully.

[Ross Allen]

I know the feeling. But no, I mean, I've known you a long time. It's lovely to have you in to talk to you about your journey through music.

I always love these shows because we just get to sort of, you know, wherever people are at in their careers, it's always fascinating, I think. I suppose just because the way it just affects me, do you know what I mean? And just even you pulling tunes out and going, oh, this reminds me of this.

And it's like, I'm always like that with records, do you know what I mean? I love the stories and the context. And I think we've had so many different guests in and even if people play the same track, no one's played the Moody Blues.

[Colleen]

I can pretty much guarantee that.

[Ross Allen]

No one's played the Moody Blues. But it's the context of it all. And I love it. And I love how music with people that love it and obviously the people that we get in do, how it affects their life, steers their life, moulds their life, those magical moments when it just kind of connects. So yeah, so we're going to go right back and come as forward as you can in the two hours that we've got. I know you've got a nice bag of records and some digital bits.

But tell me about the Moody Blues.

[Colleen]

Well, The Days of Future Past was my first favourite album. And I know it's not very cool. It definitely wasn't very cool for a 12 year old girl to be loving this album too.

[Ross Allen]

I think at 12 years old, that's quite cool, isn't it?

[Colleen]

I think it is cool. It's a concept album.

[Ross Allen]

You were obviously going back because you weren't 12 in 1967.

[Colleen]

No, I wasn't 12. I wasn't even born. So I was born the following year. And yeah, what happened was, is my dad brought home a turntable for me. It was a hand-me-down GE trimline, which was probably from the 1960s. And it had the drop-down turntable platter and the speakers that came out. And I needed some records. And my uncle Dennis lived a few doors down. I grew up in a small town in Massachusetts and there were Murphys everywhere, the entire clan. And he had a bunch of records and I borrowed that record because I knew Nights in White Satin. I had heard it on the radio and I loved that song. And I absolutely love the cover.

And for those that don't know, Days of Future Passed is a concept album that kind of charts, it chronicles a day, ending with Nights in White Satin, of course. And there's little snippets in between. It's all held together by little vignettes from the London Philharmonic Orchestra. So it gave me a real appreciation of the album format because I would sit and listen to the entire thing. And even though I had borrowed it because of Nights in White Satin, other songs became my favourite, like The Afternoon that we just heard.

[Ross Allen]

Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, so, you know, in the context of you as a 12-year-old girl at school, were you sort of slightly differentiated from others? Or were you always, you know, this album, one of a load of other pop records that you were into at the time?

[Colleen]

I was pretty different. I mean, I listened to everything. I knew Top 40 inside and out until I basically left Massachusetts because I worked in record shops too. But I knew Top 40, I knew classic rock. It was actually, you know, I should probably queue up another record. But what happened was, is I was into the radio first.

And I got my first transistor radio when I was about 12. And I remember becoming really, really obsessed with it. And thinking, oh my gosh, you know.

[Ross Allen]

Was it like a particular show or station? Or ?

[Colleen]

The thing that was really good about Boston is that we had so many different types of radio stations because we had the most colleges in any other city in the States. And of course, college radio is huge. So we had all different kinds of music feeding in from that. Plus, Boston's kind of a progressive liberal city. So we had really kind of more alternative radio stations, even the commercial stations. And my favorite commercial station, there were two. There was WBCN, which was the one I listened to always in the morning. And they started in about 1968, really lefty, you know, one of the first album oriented rock stations. And had some great shows. And then there's also Kiss 108, which had more kind of like the funk and all that kind of stuff. But then I also listened to like WCOZ and WAF that had harder rock. I listened to the Dr. Demento show at night. I was just really obsessed.

[Ross Allen]

Dr. Demento, yeah.

[Colleen]

The Dr. Demento show is a syndicated show in the 1970s. And he just played these kind of weird, funny novelty records. Okay. And it was quite fun. It was on Sunday nights on WCOZ. And you know, and sit and listen to that.

And another show, which I'll probably talk about in a few, was Oedipus' Nocturnal Emissions on WBCN, which was really great. But yeah, I remember when I got my first transistor radio when I was seven years old, and I remember running upstairs and putting on, and I put it on and the song that came on was Silver Convention, Fly Robin Fly.

[Ross Allen]

Oh, nice, nice, nice, nice, nice. Good tune.

Fannigate.

[Colleen]

Such a great song. And I guess it was kind of, you know, harbinger of the disco craze.

It was to follow. And of course, I was one of those kids that was dancing around the living room with my friend Emily Jackson, dancing to Saturday Night Fever as well, because that was a huge part of my childhood, you know, as well as most, most kids in the 1970s. Star Wars, Saturday Night Fever, Grease.

[Ross Allen]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's funny. I watched it. I just got back from LA. I just watched the documentary on the Bee Gees. And the way that whole thing came together was quite amazing.

[Colleen]

It's amazing, actually. I mean, there's such great songwriters, and they started in the 1960s, and we're doing more Beatles kind of things. And there's a song, I think it's called When the Morning Comes, I played recently on Balleric Breakfast, that Barry Gibb wrote, that so many people loved and covered, including Nina Simone. So I mean, if Nina Simone is covering one of your songs, you know, you've made it as far as I'm concerned.

[Ross Allen]

No, I thought it was obviously there was, you know, it was interesting. There was the whole thing with the Bee Gees. And then there was the Comiskey Park thing. And they sort of suffered, they were at their peak, and they suffered off the backlash.

[Colleen]

They did, but black musicians suffered more.

[Ross Allen]

For Sure !

[Colleen]

And that's the thing that was really terrible. I remember interviewing Nile Rodgers once, and he said when that happened, they just lost their work overnight. And he was, and that's why he became a producer in the 80s. Because they just, had to disband eventually. But I think the black musicians in America really suffered from that.

[Ross Allen]

No, totally. I mean, the documentary was about the Bee Gees. So it talked about that. And I think Jesse Saunders was on there as well. And talking about the whole race side of it. You know what I mean? Homophobic side.

[Colleen]

Homophobic side. Sort of misogynist as well, sadly. But back to the Bee Gees though, More Than a Woman, one of the best songs. I was playing it recently three different times, blasting it. Their work on Saturday Night Fever is phenomenal. It really is.

[Ross Allen]

There was a guy from RSO Records, and he was just saying that, you know, when they were talking about doing the film, and they had, they put together this compilation side of it, you know, with Fiffa Beethoven and whatever.

[Colleen]

Walter Murphy.

[Ross Allen]

Tramps and all. And, you know, they sent a tape in, and it had the five tracks in, and he would literally just flip through each one and went, Oh my God, there's that whap, bang, bang, whap, bang, bang.

[Colleen]

Great songwriters, great singers, great songwriters.

[Ross Allen]

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, no, so I, yeah, the significance of those things and the seeping in of disco and everything, I can see that and felt it myself. Although it's funny, at the time, you don't really kind of clock these things.

But with hindsight, you're like, oh, yeah, I was kind of getting drawn into the sort of the world that I suppose that we've inhabited for a long time, these threads gradually come together.

[Colleen]

Absolutely.

[Ross Allen]

So, so, you know, you're at school, you're into the music. When did you start working in the record shop?

[Colleen]

I started working in the record shop when I was 16. So before that, I, you know, I was making mixtapes and things. And then I started on the radio.

[Ross Allen]

So just one button?

[Colleen]

No, I just, I just had, I just had the, yeah, just the one button. And I started on the radio when I was 14. We had a 10 watt radio station. So that's kind of where it all really started for me before I even got into the record store at the age of 16.

[Ross Allen]

Right, okay. And was that at school?

[Colleen]

That was at school. It was a radio station that another uncle of mine had set up, helped set up when he was a student. I know I had like so many Murphys, it was crazy. And they were all quite young. My dad was the eldest of six. So my aunt was like eight when I was born. And the next uncle was 10. And so they would be, you know, we had the same teachers and everything. And yeah, so he was, my uncle Brian was one of the people who set it up in the early 1970s, which really benefited me because I started in high school in 1982.

And I was one of the people that had one of the weird shows because it was mainly classic rock, top 40. I think there was one Christian rock show. And then there was like mine. And I did a different type of a show every single year. But this next song is one of those songs that I loved playing. Because it also reminds me of Massachusetts. And, you know, we were driving around in cars blasting the radio.

[Ross Allen]

So it was a good place to listen to music, the cars.

[Colleen]

It's one of my favorite places. And acoustically, it's terrible. But you know, it doesn't matter. Because it's all about the vibe. And I love even sometimes when I'm doing a remix, I think about, you know, if I'm listening, if I'm, if it's a work in progress, I put it on in the car. Because it just gives me a whole new perspective.

But yeah, I mean, you know, when you're in as a teenager, you know, you don't have your own home. So all the kids go into cars, we drive around, or we sit in the car, you know, it's like just to be away from the parents. And this this next artist actually grew up in the town next to mine, Jonathan Richman. And he was a huge Velvet Underground fan. In fact, Velvet Underground played in Boston, more than New York City, which a lot of people don't know. Yeah, and Jonathan Richman was a kid and was hanging out with him and being really irritating, I'm sure because he's quite funny. I don't know if he means to be but he is. Jerry Harrison, funny, peculiar. Yeah, very childlike.

He has some really funny songs about the abominable snowman in the market, you know, like things like that. But this record is one of my favourite radio records and one of my favourite records to drive to. And it really just, it brings me back to Massachusetts. And it's just it just means so much to me. I love that song.

[Ross Allen]

It was interesting. We were chatting off mic and you know, that's how the whole thing you said about how much you love the 80s UK pop thing. And I suppose that's when was that? Is that like sort of early?

[Colleen]

Early 80s, I believe.

Yeah, exactly.

[Ross Allen]

And I was, you know, it always makes you know, I sort of thought about those two sort of British invasions of America, you know, the one in the 60s, which is well documented. And then the 80s one, I just, you know, it's that sort of embracing of the synth.

[Colleen]

And dance music as well, I think. And it's, you know, it's interesting because there was so much great British pop music coming out. I mean, you had all the Trevor Horn stuff, which was he was one of the sounds of the 80s as far as I'm concerned. There was so many great, great tunes.

[Ross Allen]

Vince Clark and Depeche Mode.

[Colleen]

Then you had all the Vince Clark, Depeche Mode stuff. But yeah, I got Blue Hotel and Lena Lovitch in general is was kind of a turning point for me musically because I grew up listening to music on the radio. My family listened to more classic rock kind of stuff. It wasn't they weren't going out there and finding different sounds.

And I was in the drama club as well in high school and in middle school as well. And there was an older guy who was very cool. And he said, here, we're sitting in the bleachers or whatever in the auditorium. And he said, here, listen to this. And he put a Sony Walkman on my ears. And I heard Lena Lovitch. And I didn't know about the B-52s. I didn't know about Lena Lovitch. I didn't know about Elvis Costello. I didn't know about any of these bands. And that was the thing. Yeah, that's that was the album that got me going into a whole different direction musically.

So it was really, really important. And then after that, I was just getting into a lot of you know, I said before I was listening to this radio show called Nocturnal Emissions by Oedipus, who was the program director of WBCN and who I ended up later working with in the 90s, which is quite cool.

[Ross Allen]

What was he like ?

[Colleen]

He had a really interesting show. Yeah, his show was all like, it's where I first heard Brian Eno. It's where I first heard New Order. It's where I first heard so many different bands.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And it was just very, it was, I guess we didn't have a name for it. Then there was no such thing as alternative music. It would have been post-punk or whatever. But it's really what started to get me, you know, I remember hearing Babies on Fire by Brian Eno for the first time and going, oh my gosh, what's this? You know, I can remember the moments and I used to tape the show. And, you know, there was no way to find out about music. I didn't, we didn't have Melody Maker, NME. We had Rolling Stone. You know, we didn't even have Spin at that time.

And so it was basically taping radio shows and then talking to other people and then going, I started really buying records before I started working in a record shop. I started seriously collecting when I was about 15. So going into Boston and, you know, buying, going into the big city and buying a bunch of records.

[Ross Allen]

How far out of Boston were you?

[Colleen]

You know, it was, it was about, oh, I know her. I know her. It's so funny. She's walking by in Dresden. I, I went about 40 minutes on the, on the T. And you know, not that far, really.

[Ross Allen]

So you're sort of in the suburbs of Boston?

[Colleen]

In the suburbs.

[Ross Allen]

And was there quite a sort of musical culture within Boston?

[Colleen]

No. In Boston, definitely. Boston was a very big rock town, more so. I mean, it did have a dance scene in which I did participate and go to a few different places, like in Roxbury, during the whole freestyle movement. And Roxbury had a lot of Latinos, a lot of people from Puerto Rico. And then that, that sound was very big. You know, Louis Vega started in the Bronx with that sound around the same time. But so, but yeah, and there were a few dance clubs.

[Ross Allen]

John Luongo is from Boston, isn’t he ?

[Colleen]

John Luongo is, Arthur Baker is as well.

[Ross Allen]

Arthur told me when he came in and did one. He was so, but he sounded like kind of similar to you. You know, he didn't, he didn't sort of, I mean, he, you know, he made his first disco records in, in Boston. But then I think it was almost like, right, it's just a quick leap to New York City. Yeah, exactly. He took his records there.

And obviously, that was a sort of epicenter.

[Colleen]

Well, that's what we kind of all did. You know, I remember I was, you know, I went to university in New York, and I could have gone to Boston, you know, and, but yeah, it was just time to kind of get to get to a bigger place, really, because Boston is a small town, although I love it. It's a great city, and a great walking city. A lot of Europeans like it.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, no, I've been there fleetingly. It's been very nice. So, you know, you're going to play a New Order record. Is this from that radio show? Or is this from the record shop?

[Colleen]

Both actually. I mean, when I heard this song, I'm sure I heard on Oedipus' show first. It is probably a song that defines teenagehood for me and is one of my favorite songs, I think of all time.

And I think, I don't know, I'm hoping it doesn't define teenagehood because it's called Age of Consent. But in any case, I think the thing that's so great about New Order, I mean, this is, you know, one of their early albums, Power, Corruption, and Lies, and they weren't going as far into dance music territory as they did. But you can start to hear the difference between Joy Division and New Order. It's just so compelling. And it's just a song that I absolutely love and just brings me back to that moment in time and all of these great British bands, especially bands from Manchester.

[Ross Allen]

If you just tuned in, it's the Meltdown, a foundation music special with Colleen Cosmo Murphy. The worlds are colliding at this point.

[Colleen]

Yeah, the worlds are definitely colliding. And you know, I was like, listening to things like New Order. And you know, that and also a lot of that New Wave stuff was going into downseat territory, like the first Ministry album, a bunch of stuff. And there were great imports on 12 inch coming out coming over to the US.

[Ross Allen]

I always love that, that, you know, like, there's, you know, imports for us in the UK, where things like this, and going to Groove Records. And I love the when you talk to Americans, they're like, you know, British records going to the States is always kind of, it just makes me sort of...

[Colleen]

Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I worked in two different record shops when I was in high school. And one was called Strawberries, which was more mainstream, but massive.

[Ross Allen]

And did you have imports there?

[Colleen]

We had more imports at Newberry Comics. Okay. And Newberry Comics started in Newberry Street in Boston. Amy Mound from Till Tuesday worked there. That was very impressive to me. But they opened one up out in Framingham, near where I'm from. And I that's where we got all the great imports because they had comic, but they started with comic books, but they had more alternative, you know, different types of records, whereas Strawberries was a bit more mainstream.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, okay.

[Colleen]

Yeah. So with this record, I remember when it came out, and I was really getting into that kind of freestyle, electro sound. I was going to this underage disco called the Gazebo. Yeah, which was next to the Chateau de Ville in Framingham on Route 9. It was really glamorous. And also you know…

[Ross Allen]

You know, the image in your head.

[Colleen]

Yeah, I can see it right now. It's actually not too far from the record shop. But it's before I started working at the record shop. And my first concert I remember is, when I was about 15, I went to the Providence Funk Festival at the Providence Civic Center. That sounds good. It was really good.

It was Headliners, Gap Band, and then supported by Oneway, Barkays, and Grandmaster Millie Mo.

[Ross Allen]

Sick

[Colleen]

And that was really cool. But it was a really interesting time.

[Ross Allen]

So your first gig.

[Colleen]

That was my first gig. My first live gig. Yeah. But then, you know, when I started working in a record shop, because my tastes were so diverse, I was going out a lot. And I remember there was one week I would go to the All Ages Hardcore Show at Matinee on a Sunday at the Channel, and I would see Black Flag, you know, when Henry Rollins looked like Jesus before he started bodybuilding. And then I'd go see Stevie Ray Vaughan, see some blues at the Boston Opera House.

Then I'd went to the Worcester Center and I'd see Prince Purple Rain tour. So I was seeing a lot of B-52s and loads of British bands and New Order, of course. There was a riot at the show, and it's actually in Peter Hook's book.

[Ross Allen]

Really?

[Colleen]

And yeah, because New Order don't do encores. And the Bostonians were not impressed and started ripping seats out of the Opera House. But I guess it got really dicey because in Peter Hook's book, he said some people even followed them to the van and had bottles and stuff. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I just left. But I left nicely. But I had a great memory. I saw The Smiths meet his murder tour there. And at the end, a bunch of us jumped on stage and danced. And I was dancing next to Jenny Marr. And I was just like, wow, I couldn't believe it. And it was, yeah, so there's a lot of great live shows. And also, you know, little clubs, there's more of a live music town, but some clubs as well.

[Ross Allen]

So you're fully, and at that time, were you thinking, this is what I want to do? Or were you just sort of like just loving it and not really thinking about anything else?

[Colleen]

You know, yeah, I mean, I did think I could just work in a record shop the rest of my life. That was an option. But I actually did very well in school. I did very well as a student. And I ended up not even knowingly, I became number eight in my class of 200. And everyone's like, you need to go to you should go to university. And no one in my family had gone. And so I ended up applying to a few schools, all that had great radio stations. I knew what I wanted to do.

I wanted to, you know, be in radio. And I only applied to schools that had great radio stations. And one of them was NYU, which had one of the biggest college radio stations in the country, WNYU. And you can imagine because it's so dense population, they had a, you know, they had 100,000 listeners per show. That's huge going from a 10 watt radio station in high school to like, no one's really listening. Or are they? A few people. But, you know, so that was quite, that was the reason I went to New York.

[Ross Allen]

What did you study when you went to?

[Colleen]

Radio and sound. I went to NYU film school, but I specialized in radio and sound. So I was like doing editing on tape and producing.

[Ross Allen]

So it was a course based around the radio station?

[Colleen]

Yeah, it was on the same floor. We had this great floor and had two radio stations. We had the amazing facilities. You know, AM and FM radio stations. We had a big newsroom. Tabitha Soren, who later went to MTV News, was my newscaster on one of my shows. A lot of people, a lot of talent went to different places. It was a great, great training ground. And we had a great listening audience. And I did a bunch of different radio shows there.

[Ross Allen]

In terms of music shows, interview shows, or, you know, magazine shows or whatever?

[Colleen]

All of those actually. Yeah, one was like the Evening Drive, New Afternoon Show, which was one of the anchor shows, which was, you know, all new kind of, now I hate to say the word alternative, but it's before it was college rock music. It was a variety of stuff though, because there's so many different things coming out, whether it was the wax track stuff from Chicago would also go on that show to, you know, all different Nick Cave to the butthole surfers to whatever.

And I did a psychedelic 60s show as well. And I called Plastic Tales from the Marshmallow Dimension. I kid you not. And I did a show. I was quite relieved when I heard that John Peel had a show called The Perfumed Garden. And then I did a show called Headphone Theater, which was all radio drama that I produced together into a big thing. And, you know, this was quite a lot of stuff. And then later in the 90s, that's when I got into dance music heavily. And I did it. We'll talk about that.

[Ross Allen]

Well, you've got a Brian Eno record.

[Colleen]

Yeah. I mean, I told you before that the first Brian Eno song I heard was Babies on Fire and that got me digging. So I'd go into Nuggets in Boston or Planet Records and I just buy any Brian Eno album.

And this album I love because it has a cross between his ambient stuff and his pop stuff. And it's a song, this album I listened to a lot in my college dorm room, actually. And I just think this song is so beautiful. It's almost like a love, it is a love song. And it's called I'll Come Running by Brian Eno from Another Green World.

[Ross Allen]

Beautiful.

[Colleen]

It's such a soothing album where the production is and it's so deep, but it's so musical. And I think this is like an early introduction to house music for me. You know, my friend Adam Goldstone had been bringing me to some of the 80s clubs, you know, Adam. And, you know, I would go to tracks and see a Dave play. But this was an album that every single song, Mr. Finger's introduction, I just fell in love with. I had a couple of Robert Owens songs, mainly Larry Hurd singing.

But it has like pop, jazz, house. And it's so finely crafted. And the keyboard sounds and just the beautiful chord structures and I can go on and on and on. But this is the one that just really did it for me.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, it's such a killer tune. So obviously, I mean, you're in New York, you're into music in general. And are you gradually getting dragged into sort of the nightlife or, you know, like drifting into it and sort of finding out about the sort of this black underground world?

[Colleen]

Absolutely. And some of it was British too, to be fair. I mean, I lived in Japan in 1989 for four months. I was a radio DJ there. And one of the albums we played all the time was was Soul to Soul Club Classics Volume One. And so I was getting into that. Massive Attack, of course, had Blue Lines. So I was really into that. I was also producing a syndicated radio show called Music View, which went out to 200 college stations.

So I was interviewing a load of British artists like Primal Scream, Screamadelica was one of my biggest albums because it kind of melded that indie sound that I loved. Yeah. And college rock sound that I loved. And that Southern, you know, Rolling Stones kind of Exxon Main Street-esque kind of sound to with dance music. And then I started interviewing people like AFX Twin and Orbital and all these different people and then all the indie bands like The Verve and all that. But that was another part of my life in the early 90s.

So I was doing all that. And then I was going out at night and Adam was bringing me to, you know, I went to the shelter. I went to Save the Robots. I was going to all different places. And then, you know, and then Adam brought me to David Mancuso's party, The Loft, for the first time. Yeah.

[Ross Allen]

And how was that? Was that was that, you know, markedly different to those other places?

[Colleen]

It was markedly different. And it just resonated with me more musically because it was more all embracing. And, you know, David, I later found out David and I shared a favorite album, which I brought with me. I haven't played yet, which is Astral Weeks by Van Morrison. And David was a hippie. He was 24 years older than me.

So he was actually older than my dad, but he was in his late 40s by the time I met him. And I just we just, you know, I would go to his party all the time and I would just stay, sometimes I'd stay there all night, you know, from midnight to noon the next day. In the morning, he'd be playing like The Orb. We all loved The Orb. And he'd be playing Jimi Hendrix. Or the whole album, Adventures in the Ultra World, Ultra World, Ultra Orb. Adventures in any case. Yeah, exactly. That was so good.

And then Jimi Hendrix. So there was a lot, there was a hippie sensibility, you know, that a girl whose first favorite album was Moody Blues, Days of Future Past, that I could tap right into. And I was turned on to so many different songs and styles. And, you know, I was producing these syndicated radio shows in the day, you know, interviewing all these bands. Oasis, I'd be interviewing Noel Gallagher, I'd be doing that in the daytime. And then in the evening, I'd be going over to Dance Tracks where my friends were working. And I'd be kind of just helping out organize records and Joe Claussel would be saying, do you have this? Do you have this? Do you have this? And they were paying me in records.

[Ross Allen]

In the new stuff or sort of schooling you in the classics and the whole New York culture.

[Colleen]

Yeah, all the classics. And it was cool because at that time, disco wasn't popular. So there were all these kind of charity shops, thrift stores, as we call them there. And even bodegas in the Lower East Side. I'd go in the back, there'd be a bunch of records. I would find stuff like, you know, White Label of Macho City by Steve Miller Band for a dollar.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colleen]

You know, I find all these Larry LeVan mixes. I never went to the Paradise Garage because it closed in 87.

[Ross Allen]

Did you just go to World? Did you see him there? I know Adam used to go there.

[Colleen]

I went to the World. Yeah, I was actually in a Beastie Boys video shot at the World.

[Ross Allen]

Oh, really?

[Colleen]

Yeah, 1986.

[Ross Allen]

What one was that?

[Colleen]

No Sleep Till Brooklyn.

 [Ross Allen]

Oh, really?

[Colleen]

Yeah, I'm in the crowd with my friend who's a real punk, a Long Island skate punk. Another story for another time. Something for the memoirs. But yeah, and I used to love the World.

 [Ross Allen]

So you got to see Larry LeVan DJ at World?

[Colleen]

No, no, no. I never heard him DJ. Adam took me to The Choice in 1990. I was living on 9th Street between B&C and the East Village. And The Choice was actually at David's house, David Mancuso's house. But he wasn't doing the loft yet. He was just renting his venue out. And I'm not quite sure who played at The Choice that night because there were three different DJs. It could have been it could have been Joey Yanos. It could have been Frankie Knuckles or could have been Larry LeVan. I don't know. Sadly, Adam was no longer with us.

I can't ask him. But as far as I'm aware, I never heard Larry LeVan play. And you know what, I don't even listen to the recordings. I tried before. They never really sound like the moment. I don't listen to recordings of myself DJing or anyone. Even David's people would record his sets, you know, just, you know, on microphones and stuff. And it's just never the same thing. But I was really becoming obsessed with his mixes, his remixes.

 [Ross Allen]

The Larry Levan ones

[Colleen]

And yeah, just so great and dubbed out. And he knew what worked on a dance floor. You know, it was, you know, had the cerebral side, but also the visceral side of what was, you know, what was going to make you dance? What had the funk?

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, I was gonna say there's definitely, you know, especially when it all slowed down, you know, Tanya Gardner's and those kind of, you know, you know, it's just, yeah, I love that period where, you know, it's almost, I sometimes think it's similar to what's going on today in so much as, you know, if house is disco, you can see, you know, with these fusions that are going on now of like hip hop and house coming together, whether it's Channel Trey or Nez or even on that Beyonce album, this sort of blackening of what has been slightly bleached out from its original inception. And I think that that was what I know, you know, what I love about the whole Paradise Garage thing. Again, I was never there.

I did see him play at Ministry. But it's just that thing of just, it just got funky. It was just so funky. And there was this sort of the uptempo sort of high energy kind of disco thing going on. And this just got sort of down and dirty. And even if it was still, you know, it's my one of my, the record you're about to play is the tempo that I love the most.

Yeah, that sort of 110, 115, like chuggy, funky kind of thing. And I mean, you know, when house music came out, we also thought it was really fast. Because we were listening to sort of, you know, I don't know, I don't know why.

[Colleen]

You're listening to hip hop.

[Ross Allen]

But at the same time, I don't know if we did think it was it was, it felt fast, because I think it was so minimal. Oftentimes, you know what I mean? It was so raw.

That I think that sparseness meant that it was just all about the four to the floor a lot of the time. And that is what made it feel quite fast. And definitely, in comparison to what was going on in London with the hip hop, the rare groove, the go go, all those kinds of things.

House music did sort of stand out for a while, until sort of 88. And a lot of places as slightly up tempo, and a bit sort of like, Oh, we're gonna get into this or not, you know, so I think so. But yeah, this this tempo that you've and you know, you've you've bought in one of my all time favourite records, the record that when my ex said, what about calling her Lola?

I was like, Yeah, that's the name of that one of my records, Wax the Vans.

[Colleen]

It was the name of Bob Blank's wife.

[Ross Allen]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Tell us why you picked this?

[Colleen]

Well, you know, I befriended David. I mean, basically what happened was I had a radio, I was so inspired by dance music. I started two new radio shows, one that was called Soul School on Friday nights. And one was it was Club 89, which was a live house mix show. And they were both on WNYU. And I asked Dave, I was playing a lot of loft and Paradise Garage classics on Soul School. And I thought I'd love to have David come up and play some records. And so I asked a mutual friend, he could ask him, you know, for me, even though he knew who I was, I, I've never been the one to like bum rush the floor, except for, you know, when the Smiths play. But in any case, I don't bother people when they're working and playing in or in the zone, you know, I would just kind of hang out.

I'm a bit shy in that way anyways. So David said, Yeah, I'd love to hang out with her. He knew who I was. And so he went out for drinks. And we started talking about the synchronicity of music. And he came out, he, we, that was the beginning of our friendship.

And that we came up to the radio show, we played records, he didn't want to talk, he was too shy. And I never, it never even crossed my mind that the next thing would happen. It never entered my head as even a possibility. He said, why don't you come and play some records with me at The Loft? And I was like, what? And you know, it's not just the crowd who are so discerning. It's also the equipment. And, you know, there's no headphone jack, you're using an ML1 preamp with two phono channels. So there's no way to even cue a record.

[Ross Allen]

Okay.

[Colleen]

And you also are using cartridges, which I was telling you about before, you think these are high end. The Koetsus were, well, sadly, the son, Sugano Jr. just passed away recently, so no longer in production. But some of the best cartridges in the world and moving coil cartridges made, handcrafted in Japan. And David was really suffering at that time financially. I mean, he didn't have any money. The Loft wasn't really in full swing.

He was having a hard time getting people to come out over to Alphabet City. It just seemed too far away and too dangerous for some people. And I was terrified of the cartridges because I had only heard, yeah, those cartridges cost $2,000 each and he only has two and doesn't have a backup.

And if one gets whacked, that's it. So the pressure was on, you know, and there was no like sound check. I just use like, okay, here we go. Come on. This is how you do it. And I was like, okay.

[Ross Allen]

So was that your first DJ gig?

[Colleen]

No, my first DJ gig actually, I actually played at Mars in the 80s and CBGB's Record Canteen through the radio station. And then I had other gigs, like I was asked to play at the African Street Festival in Brooklyn by some listeners. And there I am, like the white girl, you know, playing in the African Street Festival in Brooklyn. Really funny. But yeah, I just, this was kind of probably the most significant, but it wasn't a gig, it was a party. So it's just, you just did it. And the record, the first record I wanted to play was an Arthur Russell record. I didn't know David had known Arthur. I didn't know much about David. There's no internet then. So this is like 1991, 92, 93, I think is the first time I played.

[Ross Allen]

But did you know the sort of like the significance of him and the effect he had on sort of New York kind of dance culture?

[Colleen]

Yeah, I have heard about it. A bunch of people I knew were friends with Larry Levan, had been friends with Larry Levan. In fact, David hosted Larry Levan's memorial. It was a three day memorial, which was amazing. And David and Larry had a relationship, a friendship. And Larry still called, from what I understand, called the loft home. More than the Paradise Garage.

[Ross Allen]

Oh, really?

[Colleen]

So yeah, so that was home. And you know, David had let Larry play records. So it was quite an honor to then be asked. And that, of course, led on to much others, much other stuff after that. But this, this was the first record. And it was funny because it's an inside cut. So I had to do it by eye, you know, no headphones, and it worked.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask about that sort of no headphones thing. How does that work? You just cue it up and then...

[Colleen]

I used to have great eyesight. I don't anymore. So I have to wear glasses. But yeah, it's all by eye. Because you can't back cue a koetsu and there's no headphones anyways. So I had to know all of my records before I went. So I was studying and listening to stuff. I only played four records. So you know, I over paired as usual. But this record, I remember when I played it, he turned to me and says, very good, Colleen.

[Ross Allen]

I was just saying, I'm Miss Lola. But I know everyone plays this. I mean, but I just I remember buying that when it first came out. And I, yeah, I mean, this is great. But the other side, it's I just loved her nutty voice. And it's also a thing, which I sort of love is that, I don't know, is she a Latino?

[Colleen]

I don't know. Possibly.

[Ross Allen]

It's that whole thing with a lot of like, sort of New York records where you get those singers. And they're not black. But they got that soul. But they're, they just got that intonation, which I think is that sort of, you know, whether they're Puerto Rican or whatever.

[Colleen]

You think at least in the cult jam.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah. And then there's another record, which I can't think of at the moment, which I absolutely adore. In India, of course. Get on up and do it again.

[Colleen]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ross Allen]

Whoever that girl is. Get on up and do it again. That sort of voice.

[Colleen]

Suzie Q.

[Ross Allen]

That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sort of voice I love. And I mean, this was I knew nothing about Arthur Russell when this came out. I was just like, oh, my God, what is going on?

[Colleen]

I know you start putting the pieces together with this stuff. Like, that's him as well.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was just that thing, I think at the time with these records, they're just, you know, I mean, and then in a way, that's what I love about dance music. And I'm still, I still hear it now where, you know, wherever they may be from. I was listening to some African thing this morning, I don't know what it was, DJ Zenobia. And it was just like, what is that? And that is what I love about this music, you know, just that sort of, as well as its danceability and its funkiness.

And, you know, once it gets into a bit of a sort of straight pattern, I'm a bit like, oh, you know, I know it now, you know, I always found that after, you know, it was always kind of interesting for me, like New York and Seoul, when they did the Nervous track, was just like, oh, my God, what is that?

[Colleen]

Incredible. Big record, The Loft as well.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, but just the breaks and just that whole kind of thing. And then I just, I mean, and I did like the album they made. But what happened after it, and this would be interesting to talk to you about actually, is I just, I thought that the house music from New York City all of a sudden took influence from New York and Seoul and the live elements. And all of a sudden, it became a bit boring.

[Colleen]

I mean, sometimes it can be a bit samey. And I think that's the truth, though, with all of the different forms of dance music or any music, you know, it does eventually get watered down. There's something works, people jump on it, and then it gets watered down. And we can say this with any form of music.

[Ross Allen]

For sure, for sure. I suppose a city that I'd always loved and, you know, I mean, there's, you know, we had Ellie Escobar on and all the stuff he's doing at the moment, you know, he's, you know, there's never writing any particular genre, but in general, if I go through Tracksource now, I really struggle to get a, you know, like a record that I'm like, you know, I mean, I will do it. I've sat there and gone through 200 tracks on Tracksource and gone, oh, there's four for me.

But it's sort of interesting, because at this time, you know, it was just, I mean, you know, like other records on even on that label, like Russ Brown, Find a Way.

[Colleen]

Such a good one. That's a great one, too.

[Ross Allen]

So many good things. And obviously, it's sort of, that was the sort of, you know, house music or dance music, whatever you want to call it was sort of coming together and formulating into this kind of much more...

[Colleen]

Post-disco as well.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, homogenized kind of thing. And yeah, but yeah, no, anyway, to the point that record I love.

[Colleen]

Yeah, well, the next record I'm going to play was another... I have to say I'm very proud of that one.

[Ross Allen]

I love the intro.

[Colleen]

Hello, here I am. Hello.

[Ross Allen]

Did you wave?

[Colleen]

I did. I waved everyone. I was probably like, I hope this works. I was probably, knees were probably shaking. But this next record as well is also another artist who is very much in his own sphere and quite idiosyncratic. And it's Romanthony.

And I was playing a lot of his records. I had this radio show, Club 89. And of course, Roman had his own record label, Blackmail Records. And he'd come in from New Jersey and he'd sell directly to Dance Tracks. I mean, he also was distributed through Downtown 161. But sometimes he'd bring in some white labels and come straight to Dance Tracks.

And we became friends. He was a Virgo like me. And I just loved, I mean, I was a big Prince fan. And to me, he was kind of like the house music version of Prince, like in the way that Blaze is the house music version of Earth, Wind & Fire, you know? But I have to say Roman was quite lo-fi. But he did, I had so much respect for him because he did it all himself.

You know, I mean, some of the records that I have, you can see they're like Xerox labels that he's put on that are coming off, you know? And we became friends and he came up to my radio show. I think I have that show up on my Mixcloud. It was a really fun show. He was DJing. And, you know, he'd come in from New Jersey and sometimes he'd crash on my couch because I was living on Canal Street in Chinatown at the time, if you didn't want to go all the way back to New Jersey. And we just became friends. And this song in particular, I was looking for the original acoustic version of The Wanderer, which I cannot find. I don't know what happened to it because that was one of my favorite songs of his.

But this one is one that I just absolutely love. It's kind of lo-fi gospel meets Prince. So should we have a listen to it?

[Ross Allen]

It's Romanthony, Bring You Up.

[Ross Allen]

Definitely got the funk.

[Colleen]

Definitely has the funk. Lo-fi funk, but he has the funk.

[Ross Allen]

No, I love it though. I love it. I mean, I suppose that's sort of talking about those early house records.

And it's that rawness that you love about it. You know, it's just integral to it.

[Colleen]

Absolutely. I mean, I love beautifully arranged stuff like Fingers, like Larry Murray, but on the other side, having something that's really raw and just to the point and focused. And it's just that kind of kernel of a song in a sense.

But just really, really works on the dance floor.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, that definitely is a party starter, if not sort of a rocker. And, you know, I remember when those records first came over here, it was a bit like, oh, my God, what's that? That's what I just said to you.

You know, it's that thing of a bit like when Moody Man came out. It was sort of like, you know, you had that raw, loose. Groove bass.

Kind of slightly underplayed, you know, but it's just got the energy, you know, it's got the funk.

[Colleen]

Absolutely.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colleen]

So, yeah, so that was one of the big records that I would play out in New York because then I started, you know, playing quite a bit. The Club 89, my show kind of blew up. It was one of the few house shows and we didn't have a lot of house on the radio there.

So it's like me, Disciple, Jeannie Hopper. Oh, yeah, I remember Jeannie Hopper. Tony Humphreys, of course, being the famous one.

And really, that was kind of it. I mean, people discovered house music on my show because, you know, being on an FM station as opposed to an online one, you'd be driving in your car at home and you'd be flipping around between 88 and 92 where all the cool stations were. And, you know, in America, house music wasn't as big as it was here, obviously.

[Ross Allen]

By that point, New York had been saturated with hip hop.

[Colleen]

Oh, yeah. I mean, hip hop was commercial music. In fact, I mean, even though when I first started DJing, I played a bit of hip hop.

And actually, one of my early radio shows in the early 80s did, you know, it was called Punk Funk and Junk. I kid you not.

[Ross Allen]

Sounds good.

[Colleen]

Yeah, and so I was playing electro and like, you know, early run DMC and IRT and all that stuff. But by this time, I loved hip hop, but I didn't need to play it because other people played it better than me. And it wasn't the style where I was.

And plus, I heard it all the time. You know, I heard it all the time anyways. I used to listen to Red Alert and people like that.

And I loved those songs. I actually interviewed a lot of those artists like Gangstar and Pete Rock and CL Smooth, my syndicated show. But I would get very irritated when I was out, you know, as a working DJ and people asking for hip hop because it was commercial.

It was commercial to us, even though I loved it. I just wasn't a hip hop DJ. And I'm like, you know, house music.

House music was the underground thing there, you know. But yeah, I was, I was.

[Ross Allen]

It's an interesting differentiation, I think, because obviously, I mean, you know, hip hop took the world over, you know. But, you know, over here, there was that sort of, there was, you know, there was quite a divide of, you know, it was sort of, there were people that loved house and that sort of, you know, which, and it became a bit more sort of, you know, Eurocentric, I guess. Do you know what I mean?

You know, and then sort of, you know, a lot of black underground clubs here would be playing hip hop. And it's a very different thing. It would always freak me out when I'd go to New York or even when I go to LA now.

And it's just in the air.

[Colleen]

Yeah, it's everywhere.

[Ross Allen]

And here, it was still, you know, it was either on particular radio stations, particular shows, and in particular clubs. And, you know, I mean, I didn't really watch MTV and things like that necessarily so much. So, I don't know.

Do you know what I mean? But it was, you know, it is that thing, I think, when you're in New York, you know, it is the pop sound.

[Colleen]

Yeah. Although I did experience, you know, I love Public Enemy and Chuck D. And I did go on the Stop the Violence show.

I think it was 1989 at the Apollo in Harlem.

And that was so...

[Ross Allen]

Was that when they did the record?

[Colleen]

Yeah. So, yeah, so it was, I think it was 1989. I believe it was.

And it was me and a friend of mine. I think we're two of the only white people in the whole place, which was great, you know. And I loved it.

It was so amazing. And so that didn't feel as pop. It definitely felt more underground.

And it just had so much gravitas. I mean, I hear Public Enemy and you just jump out of your seat. The production, the lyrics, I mean, they were just one of my favourites.

[Ross Allen]

Well, I suppose those years you're talking about are the years when it transitioned. Do you know what I mean? From being that underground sound to being, you know, to taking over.

I read that Dan Charnas book, I don't know if you've read it, it's like The Business of Hip Hop. He wrote the one about Jay Dilla, but his previous book is incredible. It's all about the business of hip hop and how hip hop evolved as a business.

And, you know, I was always fascinated by how the fact it was this, you know, house and hip hop and go-go, all these little regional underground scenes. But then hip hop just, it basically, the radio stations just flipped. Boom, boom, boom.

And they went from rock stations, the format became the thing. And, you know, that period from sort of, you know, I don't know, I suppose, 88 to sort of 94, you know, with all those massive records coming out, whether it's The Chronic or Snoop Dogg or whatever, you know, the West Coast thing kind of kicked in. And, yeah, it was quite fascinating because I was always over here looking at it and thinking, yeah, you know, I mean, I sort of get it in a way, you know, hip hop was always sort of, or house music was sort of black gay underground music, you know, in its initial inception.

And maybe that's what sort of stopped it connecting. But, you know, it was, you know, the medium that translated it over was the radio stations. And in his book, he deals with the whole fact that it just, that it flips.

And it is the pop music, you know, of the streets, if you like.

[Colleen]

Absolutely. And that's great, you know. But yeah, as a DJ, I was, it wasn't my thing, you know.

And when I first started DJing, like everyone, I played everything from Downs Hall to whatever. But as you get more focused and you become more of, you're built, you're focusing your talent more, I guess, in your sound.

[Ross Allen]

Well, there was that New York thing I always loved was the fact that you'd have, you know, Red Alert and then Tony Humphries.

Colleen

Yeah.

Ross

And then you had all those records like Blood Vibes by Masters at Work.

And, you know, there was that brilliant hip hop in that golden age you talk about. And, you know, you know that a load, you know, go to those clubs and early on, it would be hip hop. And raga.

Colleen

Yeah.

Ross

And then it would just, and then it would gradually crank up. And you had people like Bobby Condors doing his things.

And then gradually it was, you know, the late night music was the house music and then the classics.

[Colleen]

Those are like the working gigs. So like at Nell's and stuff like that, Giant Step was like that. Giant Step was great.

And I used, you know, any working DJ in New York, you play it from 10 to 4. So you did six hour sets at least a couple of times a week. And you did have to kind of move it around.

But then I started to get known for a sound, which was great. And that's when Francois, you know, asked me to play at Body and Soul.

[Ross Allen]

And how'd you get to meet Francois?

Was that just through dance tracks?

[Colleen]

Well, yeah, he was quite an intimidating character because he has such a dry sense of humor. And plus, you know, I knew his records from the 80s. You know what I mean?

I was a fan of his mixes for Yaz. And so I knew him and I knew, you know, he had obviously done Violator as well with Depeche Mode. So that's kind of all the music that I like as well.

So he would come in. I knew Wave and he, I never really chatted with him that much. But a friend of mine, Glenn Gunner from Street Corner Symphony.

And I remember Glenn. He was over and he was crashing on my couch. And around, I guess, the mid 90s, I was still working at dance tracks.

And we were going to go to Body and Soul. And before we leave, I get a call on the landline. Of course, I happened to be there.

And it's Francois. And we never really had our own conversation. And he said, hi, word has it you have a very good disco collection.

I said, yeah, yeah, I guess I do. He said, well, I was wondering if you'd come and open up today at Body and Soul, because I think Joe had a delayed flight and Danny Krivitt, I think maybe had broken an ankle or something like that. And I couldn't believe it.

And that and I went and I brought a lot of some weird stuff to, you know, like Jezebel Spirit, you know, and David Byrne and things like that, that kind of crossed over. And that was the beginning of my friendship with Francois, which is a very, very important friendship and mentorship as well. Because he's really helped me.

You know, when I moved over to the UK, he was the one that introduced me to an agent and I got my manager. He still helps me to this day. I mean, he's someone I really look up to in so many ways.

As a friend, because he's there for me. He's the one that told me when David died, it was Francois. And he's just kind of like a big brother or an uncle, since my uncles are so young.

But he's done so much for me. And then also his productions like this one I'm about to play kind of reminds me of the time, you know, when I moved over to the UK in 1999 and it was, you know, starting all over again, you know, and Francois being such a big help. And he was also doing so many great remixes around that time.

[Ross Allen]

No, I've got nothing but I think he's, you know, just drawing the line between those early days and now. He's still doing it, you know, and I find in fact, I used to love his show on Worldwide. You know, I found so many great records off of that and just all the stuff he's busy doing.

It's just, he's brilliant.

[Colleen]

Yeah, he's a true inspiration.

[Ross Allen]

The Meltdown, Foundation Music Special, Colleen. Cosmodelica, Murphy, Cosmo, Coz.

[Colleen]

Coz is the name people call me.

Yeah, you can call me Coz.

[Ross Allen]

Can anyone call you Coz?

[Colleen]

Not anyone.

[Ross Allen]

Thank you, I appreciate it, I appreciate it. You can call me Ross.

[Colleen]

Okay, I'll call you Ross. Ross and Coz.

[Ross Allen]

But no, I've been loving our little journey through and this book, this one, we were just chatting off mic. Both fans of early Francois Kevorkian at Wave Records, the label that he set up sometime in the late 90s, I think. Mid 90s.

Yeah, mid 90s. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it all seems like a blur.

But definitely got that sound. And one of the engineer, a guy that we both love, was a guy called Rob Reeds. And he's got that techy sort of, kind of like a European sort of sound, but nice.

[Colleen]

Beautifully produced. Beautifully produced music. You know, I just love it.

And not a lot going on. And it's not too many. I've been guilty of that in my own productions in the early days.

Put everything in. You want everything in there. More bass.

Throw in loads of stuff. And then I just started paring down, paring down, paring down, paring down, and really listening to Francois. And also the EQing as well.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. They're sonically there.

[Colleen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ross Allen]

Love them, love them, love them.

[Colleen]

Yeah. But you were talking about productions and stuff, and I was quite lucky. Dance Tracks opened quite a few doors.

And also being on the radio, I guess, did. And Tommy Musta, do you remember Suburban Records? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Tommy was one of my customers, or our customers, I should say. He and I always got on well, Virgo. And he said to me, he came into the shop one day, he said, I want to put out your first record.

And I had just started songwriting, like just actually writing lyrics. And arrangements and things. And so I did my first production with him in 1998 with Alison Crockett, who was in King Brit's band Silk 130.

[Ross Allen]

Oh, that's right. Yeah, I was thinking, where do I know that name from?

[Colleen]

Exactly. Yes, great singer.

Ross

So what did that come out under?

Colleen

It came out in Suburban. Cosmo Presents She, featuring Alison Crockett, was my first record. And the next one I did was completely polar, not polar opposite, but this is kind of the story of my production career.

No two records sound alike. The next thing I did was with Danny Wang, called Light Fantastic for Playhouse in Germany.

[Ross Allen]

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[Colleen]

And then we started my own label with Nicky Lucas called Bitches Brew. We started doing some of our own productions. And then I teamed up with Ashley Beadle.

We did Darkstar Productions. And then there was a Cosmodelica Productions. And the first one I think I did was-

Ross

Was all that when you was in New York?

Colleen

No, I only did one song, two songs when I was in New York. So one with Danny, one with Tommy Musto. And then I moved here in 99.

I think I started Bitches Brew in 2000.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, okay.

[Colleen]

And so that was kind of an outlet for a lot of stuff. And then the first remix I was asked to do just for myself was for Desmond Decker for Trojans Back Catalog. And then I started doing- Ashley's been a big supporter and he's like a soulmate.

We had our own production team, Darkstar together and DJ together and did a compilation together.

[Ross Allen]

All the best people have tapped into your vibe.

Colleen

 Oh, thank you.

Ross

You know what I mean?

You know, it's like, you know, Mancuso, Francois, Beedle.

[Colleen]

Yeah, no, I've been really lucky. You know, and they're all good people.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colleen]

You know, they're people I admire musically, professionally, but they're also good people. And that's really, really important to me.

[Ross Allen]

It's nice when the two go together. And I think they often do. I think a lot of times people are like, oh, you know, music business is full of idiots or whatever.

But I do think that all of the people you talk about, they're genuine. Do you know what I mean? Obviously, there's a music business, money, hustle, whatever, which attracts a certain type.

I think that's less because there's so little money in the music business.

[Colleen]

Exactly. It's like, good luck.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, but yeah, you know, yeah. Especially Beedle, I have so much love for him.

[Colleen]

Yeah. I mean, he's one of the founding fathers of house music in the UK, if you think of it that way. I mean, he really is, you know, with Express 2 and everything.

But he's just done a phenomenal body of work and all great. I mean, that's the thing. And he just has a great year, a wonderful year.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, most definitely, most definitely. But yeah, you moved into production.

[Colleen]

I moved to production and then I stopped production for a while. I had done, I think the last thing I had done, I don't remember the year it came out, but it may have been around, I can't remember, but it was Fat Freddy's Drop, Mother Mother, the Cosmodelica remix.

It was my favorite remix. I finally thought, now I have a remix I can play. Because I never played my own stuff before.

I never did. I never thought it was good enough. As I keep saying, I'm a Virgo, you know, perfectionist to the max.

And, you know, it's all, you know, you're learning and you're figuring things out. And yeah, I'm still proud of that work, but I'm not like, it wasn't something I'd play out. And Fat Freddy's Drop, Mother Mother was something, I heard it right from the start, when I heard the song and exactly what I was going to do.

It took me no time to do it, played it, loved it. And then I stopped remixing for a long time.

[Ross Allen]

Why was that?

[Colleen]

A couple of reasons. One, Classic Album Sundays took off, which we'll talk about. But, so I had less time.

Two, I wasn't inspired. So I didn't, there was, it's just, there was nothing there that was inspiring me to do it. I knew I had already made an album.

Yeah, no, just, yeah, coming, yeah, exactly. I mean, I had done an album with Gary Lucas as Wild Rumpus, right after my, our daughter was born. My and Adam's daughter was born, Ariana, in 2004.

And I did focus quite a bit on production. I did a load of remixes, loads of them, with Cosmodelica ones, went to Dark Star with Ashley. And then I did the Fat Freddy's Drop, but it was like the same time as Classic Album Sundays.

And I just put everything into Classic Album Sundays for a while. You know, it just got that kind of moving and going. But it was thanks to a few, like Roisin and Jeff Barrett at Heavenly, and you, that kind of got me back on there.

I got back, you know, producing, remixing records, I should say.

[Ross Allen]

I mean, you absolutely smashed that Lady Blackbird one, and I thought it was brilliant.

[Colleen]

Thank you. Well, should we have a listen to that one then?

[Ross Allen]

Yes, I think so.

[Colleen]

Do you want to say anything else about it? Because I was, when I first heard her voice, it was during the pandemic and it was Ashley's remix, Beware the Stranger. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is my favourite contemporary voice right now.

And it's her voice. So bluesy, gritty, effortless.

[Ross Allen]

There's not a lot of voices like that around at the moment, are there? You know, I've just got back from being in LA and making her second record. So I've been deep in the world of Lady Blackbird.

And it's, yeah, it's great to see her in the studio. She's sort of effortless, just wanders in so unassuming, and bah, the power, do you know what I mean? And it's, yeah, it was funny.

We had a really good conversation, actually. We were, I bought a, we were talking about gospel and we were talking about Jasmine Sullivan. And she was talking about a load of gospel singers I didn't really know.

And she started playing me stuff. And she was just like, oh, you know, like, they're so much better singers than me. And I was like, yeah, you know, I know technically.

I mean, I don't know. I couldn't, I couldn't hear it. Do you know what I mean?

They were like, they sort of, you know, I don't know if you know the way Jasmine Sullivan sings, they're that R&B to the nth level, you know, and they flex and they've got all of this sort of like the, the intonation and the tricks.

[Colleen]

And the gymnastics.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, but character wise, it just felt a bit formulaic. It was really, it was a really fascinating conversation of her, so, you know, on that tip. And I was just like, well, no, no, you're missing the point.

You've got this timeless kind of character that throws you back to sort of like, you know, a Nina Simone or a Billie Holiday or those kind of voices. Do you know what I mean? And obviously the place we put her, or she is, you know, it's just, yeah, it just shines.

And, you know, I thought you picking Lost and Looking was, I mean, that's one of my favourite tunes on the album.

[Colleen]

It's funny, because I think you mentioned you wanted me to do a different song. I'm like, no, that's what I want to do.

[Ross Allen]

No, no, no, I wasn't going to argue. I was just like, yeah, just, you know, I think that's the thing, you know, when it comes to remixes, obviously, you know, I mean, the way we did that whole sort of campaign of remixes and whatnot, it was just to get her voice out. It wasn't like aimed that we're going to get her in the charts.

We're so far off of it.

Colleen

Oh, you wouldn't get her in the charts with one of my remixes, so don't worry about that.

Ross

But, you know, it didn't really, you know, it didn't matter what track was remixed as long as it worked.

And I think you picked a brilliant one and you killed it. It was wicked.

[Colleen]

Oh, thanks.

[Ross Allen]

Definitely got the funk.

[Colleen]

Yeah, you said with that Rome Anthony connection, I never even thought of it.

That's quite an accolade. So thank you.

Ross

No, no, no, no, no.

Just as soon as that bass line came in, I haven't listened to this for a little while, actually. But yeah, I love it. But it was just that groove.

And then the sort of Prince-like guitar. And then you get your little, it's wicked, killer mix.

[Colleen]

Oh, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity on that. I mean, I just loved it.

And it did seem that people really seem to love it, which was great. Yeah, no, no, it went down brilliantly.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, so the remixing thing is, it seems like you're doing more and more now. You're back on it.

[Colleen]

It's, I'm really back on it. I mean, it is more and more and more and more and more. And, you know, it's all good because they're all different.

Yeah, that's what keeps me interested. I don't have a cookie cutter imprint.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, that ambient one that you sent me, that was, we played that on the show. And that got an amazing reaction.

[Colleen]

Thank you. Yeah, that was more of like a Balearic Breakfast kind of song. Jacob Gurevich.

He's on Music for Dreams. He's a Danish guitarist, but he's inspired by Spanish guitar playing. And I actually rearranged the song.

I usually try to rearrange stuff. He even did another part for me because I wanted a key change. Sent it back to him.

He did the part. So I kind of lifted the song up a bit. But yeah, I mean, I just finished a remix.

Yes, two days ago for a German woman who, I don't want to say these, the things that I'm working on now, because you never know if they don't come out. It might be bad, but I think it should come out. But next month is Shapeshifters on Defected.

Right now, David Holmes, which is a very different mix. It's very indie kind of dance stuff. And something I'd play more on on my Balearic Breakfast show.

[Ross Allen]

I want to talk to you about the sort of the Balearic-y thing.

[Colleen]

I know, like how did this yank and it's in a Balearic show?

[Ross Allen]

But I mean, in a way, you know, it's a catch-all.

[Colleen]

That's the thing.

[Ross Allen]

I mean, you know, I mean, when you think of it, you know, I don't know, like the music that Larry Levan was playing, that New York sensibility, that loft sensibility, what Alfredo was playing, what Jose Padilla was playing, you know, who's the guy in Italy? Baldelli, you know, all these people were just mixing whatever had the best groove to make dance music. You know, they're formulating their own versions of dance music.

And that really, that's the Balearic thing.

[Colleen]

It is. And, you know, I kind of feel a little bit bad. I mean, the show is done really well.

It started on Worldwide FM in the midst of the pandemic. And I had taken over a Tuesday morning from Giles, Giles Peterson, because he had gone away. And he said, have my Tuesday slot over the summer.

I didn't go anywhere for a year and a half. I didn't even get, you know. So I did a show called Summer's Vacation.

But when he came back in September, he said, just keep the slot. But I had to change the name. But by this time I was streaming live as well.

And I had this kind of community that had been building. We had a captive audience for radio back in the pandemic. And so I was working, you know, streaming live from home as well.

And people would join up on a Tuesday morning. And I put the word out to the community. And it was my friend Lee Z who came back and said, how about Balearic Breakfast?

And I thought it was cool because it just gave the idea, as you said, there's no musical boundaries. I mean, there's a certain sensibility. It's about, you know, there's a certain sensibility, I think, but not about genre.

And also we were all stuck in our homes. And like, I think all of us would have loved to have been in the Balearic Islands in our minds. So it kind of worked.

But I do feel, you know, I was not part of that scene at all. You know, and so I do try to pay props to the people that were there and are there still, you know. You know, it's funny that this show really just kind of took off.

[Ross Allen]

Yeah, the way it did.

Ross

It's good quality stuff. And like you say, you know, definitely in the pandemic, there was a, you know, it was a terrible time, but it was a good time to be broadcasting.

You know, I was doing mine from up in Suffolk here and thoroughly enjoyed, you know, and I think it set a, you know, in a way, I can see why the Balearic thing came about, because, you know, you had to be quite considered with what you played. Do you know what I mean? You know, like I struggled to find hip hop records I could play during the pandemic because, you know, I mean, there's some obviously, but that Balearic-y sensibility, that sort of chilled, laid back kind of thing was a sort of tranquil sort of mood that suited the times.

Do you know what I mean? You know, it's like, you know.

[Colleen]

More pensive. The show is, I still do it every Tuesday on my MixCloud Live. Still streaming though, you know, and starting here is Balearic Brunch once a month, the first Sunday of each month from 12 to 1.

So plugging that. But yeah, it starts off usually quite pensive, reflective, and then by the end of the show, we're usually dancing.

[Ross Allen]

So, yeah.

[Colleen]

So it's a nice little trajectory, you know, musical journey.

[Ross Allen]

Your DJ sensibility. I mean, that's kind of how I do my one. It's just like, it's like nice ease in and then build up.

I think, you know, I'd quite happily be a warm-up DJ for the rest of my life. You know, it's quite nice.

Colleen

It's the best time to play or at five in the morning.

Ross

Yeah, you go on the other way. Exactly, the way coming down.

[Colleen]

Exactly.

[Ross Allen]

Well, look, thank you so much for coming in. We're rapidly running out of time.

[Colleen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ross Allen]

We can talk, well, we can talk briefly about your Classic Album Sundays, which was apart from you coming over and doing The Loft and bringing that here. Classic Album Sundays was something that you sort of...

[Colleen]

I started, yeah, in 2010. So it was before the vinyl renaissance, it was before listening bars. And, you know, I started hosting it not far from here at my friend's pub upstairs.

At the Hanbury Arms, a monthly Sunday, we're bringing in our own sound system, valve amplifiers, Clip Shoren's Coetzee moving cartridge, crazy. And, you know, featuring an entire album. So telling the story, playing music that was related to it.

And then everyone phones off, play the album uninterrupted on vinyl, and then have like a talk afterwards. And it kind of blew up really quickly because BBC Breakfast covered it. And then, you know, there's like listening bar, the whole listening bar culture kind of took off a couple of years after that as well.

But it was something that was really important to me. I've kind of brought together a lot of different strands of my own career. Journalism, which we didn't really get to talk about.

Interviewing people, which I, you know, did a lot of band interviews, as I mentioned. So there's a journalistic side. There's also the audio side that I had learned from David.

And...

[Ross Allen]

There's a hi-fi reproduction of the music.

In that great environment.

[Colleen]

And great environment, great pressing, and just being immersed and being able to hear details you've never heard before. So I thought I could share this. Not everyone can run out and buy a cartridge that costs a few grand.

Not that I'm always in a position to do that either. But I've had a lot of favors, I can say that. But this album is one of my favorite albums of all time.

And it was very important to me. Classic album Sundays. One of David Mancuso's favorite albums too.

Another one we bonded on. And it was recorded the month that I was born. August 1968.

And it was by Van Morrison, Astral Weeks. And he was actually living in Cambridge, Massachusetts when he recorded this album. So there's always this kind of thing that I always think about too.

Like, he was just 40 minutes away on this amazing album. And I love this album so much. I've done documentaries on it.

I have a doc I did for Six Music on this album. I've analyzed it in so many ways, but still just listening to the whole thing. It's like, it's life and it's death and it's everything to me.

And I know I'm even gonna start tearing up thinking about it. But it's one I would play when my daughter was a little baby and I was giving her a bath. And it's the album that I played on repeat the day that I found out that David had passed away.

And it just means so much to me. And it's like, there's something so free. And he didn't tell the musicians exactly what to do.

There's great jazz musicians on this album. The lyrics are phenomenal. You never get to the bottom of it.

It can always mean something new. And it's just a constant album in my top 10. And yeah, I just had to play something from it.

[Ross Allen]

Perfect, perfect.

Well, let's play this. And then this will be, you know, this is our last tune. So I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming in.

I knew it was gonna be great and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you. And yeah, I mean, you know, people obviously can find you online, Instagram and all those kinds of things.

[Colleen]

Colleen Cosmo Murphy.

[Ross Allen]

There you go, there you go. Thank you so much. We will end with this and I'll see you very soon.

Colleen

I hope so. Take care.

Ross

Lovely, thanks.