Balearic Breakfast | Episode 192 | Family Gatherings: Find Our Balearic Spirit / Meeting Smokin Jo
- by The Lioncub
- Sep 10, 2024
- 29 min read
Updated: Sep 14, 2024
Colleen 'Cosmo' Murphy broadcast the 192nd episode of Balearic Breakfast on her Mixcloud on September 10th 2024.
About this episode. – Before embarking on a new series of events, Colleen took a short break and visited North Devon in the South West of England. She didn't forget about us, though, as she prepared a wonderful episode streamed live on Mixcloud this Tuesday morning! Despite some technical issues during the stream, the Balearic Breakfast Family was delighted to join Colleen for a fresh musical Balearic journey! The episode started with an amazing mix by "Find Our Balearic Spirit," which I'll delve into further in the listening section of this post. The second part of today's show was devoted to the interview Smokin Jo gave Colleen about her new book "You don't need a dick to DJ", coming back to some events of her life which led her to become the respected musical host she is today!
"As I was away in beautiful and remote North Devon (where the weather has been particularly un-Balearic) this show features a guest mix from our community member Bradley Circles of Find Our Balearic Spirit and a mix from and an interview with Smokin Jo who has recently written her memoir.
Men have traditionally been the reconstructors of musical histories and in many cases women’s participation, perspectives and stories have been written out. In the pages of her book, ‘You Don’t Need a Dick to DJ’, Jo reveals her unique herstory - how music & DJing became her superpower (she was voted the Number One DJ by DJ Mag in 1992) along with the particular challenges and obstructions she faced as a Black/Brown woman. It’s intense, it’s fun, it’s traumatic and it is a story that deserves to be heard.
Other books I have recently devoured include Emma Warren 's ‘Dance Your Way Home’ - a celebratory dive into the collective activity on the other side of the DJ booth - the dance. Through exemplary research and personal account, she explores how dancing helps us to connect with our emotions, our bodies and each other. Her curiosity is infectious and leads us down various rabbit holes - I especially loved her portrayals of intimate community led dance floors (like that of the beloved Plastic People) that led to global cultural movements. She encourages us to “Dance your own story.”
‘This Woman’s Work’ is an array of essays about women and music curated by Sinead Gleeson and Kim Gordon. There are many different stories and angles but favourites include Juliana Huxtable’s Praise Poem for Lucinda Williams , Gleeson’s tribute to Wendy Carlos, and an inspirational interview by Gordon with Yoshimi P-We, the drummer of Japanoise band The Boredoms (and a muse to The Flaming Lips). These are important herstories written by ‘the other’ 50% of the world’s population showcasing women’s cultural contributions and vantage points.
I encourage you to have a read of one or all of these books and of course, to have a listen to today’s show. Thanks for listening."
Listen to the 192nd episode of Balearic Breakfast:
THE PLAYLIST
Bradley Circles' Find Our Balearic Spirit Guest Mix
(2022) Primal Scream – Shine Like Stars (Andrew Weatherall Vocal Mix)
(2022) TGH Collective – High-Level Bends
(2024) Original Rockers – Push Push (The Underwater World of Jah Cousteau mix)
(2019) Andres Y Xavi – Estrella
(2018) Morrison Kincannon – I'll Be OK Tomorrow
(1983) The System – Almost Grown
(2015) Mars and Jupiter – Amnesia Open Air Dub
(2023) Anthony Teasdale – Tango De La Boca
(1984) Frankie Goes To Hollywood – Welcome To The Pleasure Dome
Smokin Jo Guest Mix
(1977) Barry White – Ecstasy
(2017) The Wanda (ft. Chaka Khan & Beres Hammond) – Baby Don't You Go
(Dr. Packer Remix)
(1983) Fatback Band – I Found Lovin'
(1988) Sugar Bear – Don't Scandalize Mine
(2004) Groove Collective – I Want You (She's So Heavy)
(1992) Liberty City – Some Lovin'
(1992) Black Traxx – Doctor's Housecall
(1995) 2 Makes 1 – No One Loves You Like I Do
(2016) Mutiny UK (ft Lorraine Cato) – Secrets (Mutiny's 2015 Re-Edit)
(1994) Danell Dixon – Dance Dance (DJ Pierre's Wild Pitch Mix)
(2014) Roger S – Shake-Shake (Studio 54 Mix)
(2024) YOURS – Donde Esta (Masters at Work Rowdy Remix)
(2015) Paul Johnson – I Like to Get Down
THE LISTENING EXPERIENCE
We could easily give this blog a new name. We could call it the "Listen to music differently" blog (laughs)! And this is precisely what I'm trying to bring you here: sharing visions and feelings music conveys to my Soul! So when I heard Colleen was about to share a mix crafted by Bradley Circles from 'Find Our Balearic Spirit', I was over my head! I remember discovering Bradley's (my interview here) and Anslow's (my interview there) mixes, thanks to their presence in the Balearic Breakfast Family, and I remember absolutely and wholeheartedly falling in love with their musical visions. But Why, will you ask me... Let's find out!
'Find Our Balearic Spirit' is a Musical and a Sonic Trip. Both Bradley and Anslow are from another planet. Their Musical Knowledge is plainly and simply crazy. To me, they are the closest to what Colleen proposes to us each and every week here on Balearic Breakfast. But what differentiates them from our Captain is their ability to share the Balearic Freedom attached to the musical style we love so much. When Colleen creates Stories, sharing a visible Narrative that can be interpreted and transcribed, 'Find Our Balearic Spirit' are able, on their part, to share the open spaces, the big pictures, the cinematic and almost "drug-like" experiences that can be found inside the Balearic tunes we all love so much. Keeping Colleen's ability to create a musical flow, FOBS propose the big jump into the unknown. And today's mix perfectly represents that.
To me, sharing music is all about sharing what lies in our Souls. From the start, we feel that something will happen... and it takes only 2 songs to See The Big Picture on the Screen...
Starting the mix with Primal Scream's Shine Like Stars, followed by TGH Collective's High-Level Bends, Bradley then plays Original Rockers' Push Push. And there you are... This third track acts as an Overture. Yes, it is an Overture. The first two tracks have a direct approach, and this dynamic feeling is enhanced by the quicker rhythm of the third and majestic track. Can you see the giant doors opening in front of your eyes? This, Right there, this very moment, is something I did on my Balearic Breakfast mix, and I genuinely believe it is a trick every DJ can use while doing a set.
Let's say you want to take your listeners into a bigger sonic and musical experience. To achieve the big opening doors effect, all you have to do is start your set with 2 songs (no more than two) which go well together. They can be slow and cool numbers (like I did) or have that more direct approach (like Bradley did). Then, when the second track ends, all you have to do is play a song that has a "bigger Aura" (maybe from a different musical style?), something with a majestic feel (you can play it louder, too, just like I did 😉). By broadening the musical spectrum unexpectedly, you create a Wow Moment in your listener's brain that allows their mind to get instantly lost and freed from tension. And voilà. That's what Bradley did here. It's crazy. Also, don't forget to precisely select the following track that is only here to enhance your Wow musical moment... Bradley showcases that here by playing Andres Y Xavi's Estrella, perfectly followed by Morrison Kincannon's I'll Be OK Tomorrow... A work of art. Pure and simple.
And this is why I love Bradley's and Anslow's mixes so much. They create a universe, a sonic and musical universe. Some of their mixes share a Lounge Vibe, some others share a 'Night-like' Vibe, but all of them are an invitation to Relaxation, allowing the listener to reconnect with his deepest emotions by setting him Free. Yes, 'Find Our Balearic Spirit' are not to be Missed. I'm in love... Will you follow us?...
SMOKIN JO INTERVIEW
[Colleen]
This is Colleen Cosmo Murphy on Balearic Breakfast, and I'm so excited as I now have Smokin Jo in the studio with me. And she has a new book called 'You Don't Need a Dick to DJ'. Hi, Jo, how are you doing?
[Smokin Jo]
I'm very well. Thank you so much for having me.
[Colleen]
It's a pleasure. It's a real pleasure. And I can't believe that we're neighbors!
[Smokin Jo]
I know. Who thought that?!
[Colleen]
Now, this is a brilliant book. I mean, I interviewed Paulette for her book, which was brilliant as well. And yours is brilliant. And it's just it's amazing to hear these women's stories, because traditionally history has been written by men. And now we have women's voices coming out and sharing their stories. And they're all very different as well. Although we do share being a women DJ for over 30 years. Of course, we have some shared experiences, but we all have very, very different trajectories.
And this book. Wow. It's intense!
[Smokin Jo]
Thank you. Yeah, I kind of wanted to write that book for that very reason, as in we always seem to get written out of history. Women don't seem to matter.
And I always say that big story about the four guys that went to Ibiza and came back and brought house music. There were two women on that trip as well who never get mentioned, you know. So Nancy and Lisa were there.
And so for me, I'm like, right, I want to make sure I am in history that if I write this book, they can't deny that I wasn't there. And obviously there's loads of other reasons to write it. But I just felt like it's good to have that story out there.
[Colleen]
Oh, it was great. And your story is very different than Paulette's and very different to mine. And as we said, it's different to other women. And I don't want to give away too many parts of the book because I want people to buy it. But I just want to say you had a very challenging upbringing, very challenging childhood and adolescence.
And it seemed that music was a thing that really helped lift you out of that situation and to have some belief in yourself. And you found your superpower through DJ. Can you tell us a little bit about how that happened?
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah, well, I was in a children's home from seven months old until I was nine. And, you know, the 70s were pretty awful. And it was a very old-fashioned children's home run by quite old people who were very racist, misogynistic. They were very abusive mentally, physically, sexually. So it was just nine years of hell, to be honest. Me and my sister were the only black kids in the home and in the area we lived in was lovely. It was a Richmond near Richmond. So I had this awful experience in the home, but then I used to love school. So I got a really good education.
And I realized that, you know, being black brown, if you speak well and present well, it does help you get along in a way. And then I moved back to Notting Hill to live with my mom when I was nine. And up until then, I'd never, ever heard music because we didn't have it in the children's home. We had Christmas carols and Sunday school, that kind of stuff. So my mom had Motown playing. She had reggae. She had soul. She had everything. And I was just like, what is this?! And I guess I'd been very depressed because I was emotionally stunted. I didn't know how to express myself. And I kept everything in because in the home, if you're beaten every day, you don't want to show emotion. So you keep it in. And suddenly music unlocked all of this emotion. And I was crying and laughing. And it was just incredible. I just can't describe how much it changed me to have music in my life. Yeah.
[Colleen]
And then how did you find your superpower of DJing?
[Smokin Jo]
Just being obsessed with music and being very naughty. I used to sneak out at night and go to clubs from like 13 years old. My mom used to work at night.
So luckily I was able to sneak out and I didn't live too far from Soho because I lived in Notting Hill. So I'd go to all these clubs in the West End, all the gay clubs as well. And I was like, OK, I feel like I'm at home. It was like I just wanted to dance, and I connected with the music. And just weirdly, I was already making, you can't call them mixtapes, but I was just cutting up sounds and vocals and beats that I liked and just chopping them together on this double tape deck. So I'd already had this thing that I liked playing music.
And then when house music started, I just thought, oh, my God, this is it. I need to do this. This is this is me, you know?
[Colleen]
Now, my entry point was through radio. And there were women's some women's voices on the radio when I was growing up in the 1970s. So it was there. So it was a it was a possibility for me. It was available. And for me, like DJing came out of radio. But for you, you just got behind the decks. Now, how did that happen? Because did you see any other women?
[Smokin Jo]
No, I didn't see any women. And this is why I want to do it, because I was literally going out every single night of the week to all these underground illegal venues, massive warehouse parties, the big kind of M25 kind of illegal like daytime and nighttime raves. And I just looked up and I was like, hang on a minute! I've never seen a woman behind the decks. And I was just like, right, I'm doing it. And it wasn't even a serious thought. I just thought I want to do this. So I didn't have anyone to look up to. But there were female DJs.
And there was Princess Julia, DJ RAP, Nancy Noize, Lisa is Loud. So there were, but I hadn't seen them. So I can't say I had anyone to look up to at that point. But I was so headstrong. And I just thought this is it. I can't even imagine myself doing anything else. I just got some decks. It took me a while to save up the headphones, all the stuff that you need. You know, it's really expensive, right?
And I used to work in a shop very close to Black Market Records in Soho. So I used to go every day record shopping when I was working. So I kind of very quickly got myself together. And just luckily, I think luckily I got a few gigs here and there. And then Trade opened in 1990. And that was my big stepping stone into kind of being seen and getting noticed.
[Colleen]
And something very big happened not too long after you started DJing and you were named and voted the number one DJ in DJ magazine in 1992. What did that feel like when you found out it?
[Smokin Jo]
I'm so annoyed at myself because right now, if I won, obviously I would be like. But then I just didn't really get the gravity of it. It was amazing. But I was painfully shy then. I'm still quite shy now, but I just didn't get it. And they said to me, well, it's really expensive. So we can only get you a ticket. So you can't really bring anyone. So I went on my own, had no friends with me. I got my award and went home. I just was like, this is cool.
[Colleen]
I mean, it's such a it's the thing that's so amazing about that is that it was voted by the readers. This isn't a popularity contest with like who's schmoozing who. This is from the readers in 1992 voting you, and there's no social media campaign. No, for you to say, hey, vote for me. This was really heartfelt. This is true.
[Smokin Jo]
It was amazing. I think I realized I was eating so much every single weekend, probably four nights a week, traveling the whole of the country. And sometimes I do five gigs. I'd start way up north, Grimsby or Harlem, just work my way down. So hundreds of thousands of people were hearing me every weekend. So I think that, I guess, was the push for people to vote me. I think, you know, yeah, I'm so grateful. It's just a shock, and pretty disgusting that no woman has won it since then.
[Colleen]
But and also that other thing you mentioned in the book is that usually when somebody wins the number one spot and the DJs like, you know, list, they are published on the front cover. And were you the only one who wasn't?
[Smokin Jo]
As far as I know, I did not get on that cover and they put me inside probably eight or nine pages in and they bleached my face out. So you couldn't even see it was me. And they put this pink filter on top and it was just so, like, underwhelming.
Yeah, I know. And I still complain to them about it. I need to get my cover.
[Colleen]
I need my cover now! But no one can take it away from you that it's the it's the people that voted for you and you were number one. Let's have a little bit more of a listen to the music and the mix you put together for us. And we'll be back with Smokin Jo on Balearic Breakfast.
[Colleen]
And we're back with Smokin Jo on Balearic Breakfast. Now, Jo, you were just telling us that many times you had up to five gigs in a night going up and down the country. And you were really one of the first international globetrotting DJs as well. I mean, you started in 1992 and here in the UK, the DJ scene was much more mainstream, I think, in the sense that wasn't so underground. You know, house music was so underground in America. There weren't a lot of opportunities to play a lot of places just because the audience wasn't as big.
But here in Europe and in the UK in particular, with the whole acid house thing and rave culture, I mean, the DJ was really put on a pedestal and there was a lot of work. How did you deal with that? I mean, that's I just did three gigs this past weekend in 20 hours. I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's it's really intense.
[Smokin Jo]
It is intense. I mean, I was I was young. I started in 1990 and I was 23. So I had, you know, lots of energy and drive and I was passionate about it. Yeah, I was taking those drugs, if I'm honest, as well. So that drove me a lot, you know, to keep me awake. And as you say, the scene was just massive. It was huge. It was just burgeoning. It was so many clubs and events and a lot of them were pretty dodgy as well. There were a lot of unsavory promoters, but I just immersed myself in it. And I was so passionate about what I was doing. And it was so fun. I mean, why wouldn't I want to do three gigs and everyone's going bonkers and you can play anything that you like, really? I think I felt much freer then to experiment.
And when you're buying vinyl, they only make so many copies. So not everyone's got the same record. So your set is quite precious to you. You know, and then when I did get the gigs abroad, it was really eye opening to see that how universal music is. You know, you go to Tokyo and everyone's still loving and dancing to the same music. And it's just like, oh, my God, this is really special.
[Colleen]
I feel very privileged to have a life where I can go out and share music and meet people who are similar and like minded. And it's interesting. It's almost like you realize how small the world is sometimes when you start traveling and you have connections through music with people. And I never forget how privileged I am to be able to do that.
But it's also a very exciting time in the UK. And by the time I moved here in 1999, this is the era of the super club and the superstar DJs. And you you are one of them. I mean, you are, you know, really residencies. You played at Ministry of Sound. You played at Fabric. You played, you know, Trade before DTPM. I think that's where you were playing when I moved over. Manumission. You playing at Space. All these incredible clubs.
Was it really exciting time or did you feel like it was becoming too commercial? I mean, what were what were your thoughts when it was really starting to peak when dance music was starting to peak at the end of the millennium?
[Smokin Jo]
I think because, again, being so shy, I didn't like the whole suddenly you're on this stage and all these lights when you're looking at you. I preferred it when it was in the dark club in the corner and you could just kind of do your thing. So I did struggle with that. But I did really enjoy doing those big gigs and somewhat like space. I mean, you can't not enjoy that. The sun's out and everyone's there for the music. And you're creating this energy. So I loved every minute. I can't complain, to be honest.
You get the odd gig and you'd maybe go somewhere like Moscow and it'd be a bit odd because they didn't quite get it. And then you feel like you're just kind of in the club and you've got strippers pretty much on poles. And they're like, yeah, we kind of lost the point a little bit here.
[Colleen]
Now, you went through all these. You had all these great accolades, but you also had a lot of challenges as you got into further into your career. You moved to Ibiza.
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah.
[Colleen]
And, you know, I can understand why Ibiza would be such an attraction. I think people that listen to the show, Balearic Breakfast, they understand what the attraction to Ibiza is as well. But, what was what were the challenges that you started to face in the new millennium and as your career was starting to progress?
[Smokin Jo]
I think what I felt most was as a female DJ and as a black female DJ, I wasn't getting the same kind of promotion or the same energy behind certain things. Like I really wanted to do a radio show. We wanted to do one for years. And Radio One was just a closed shop. I actually was taken on by one of their producers to kind of train and all this. And they ended up giving it to another DJ who was way, way less known than me and not even, well, whatever, you know. I was like, I kind of thought that was the reason I didn't get it. It's like there just wasn't any black women on the radio then. I didn't get the same exposure as well. I mean, I got a lot. I can't complain. But I definitely feel that there was a little bit of a ceiling still over my head and just traveling alone as a black woman.
You know, you go to Eastern Europe. It was pretty horrendous. You know, the racism you're experiencing in the airports, on the streets. I didn't feel as comfortable traveling on my, you know, as my colleagues were. The only time I realized this the most was when I went on tour with Heineken, and it was like Tiësto and a few other DJs. And I just saw how different it was for them, you know.
It's like, and as a woman as well, not that I want to be given loads of girls, but you see women being, you know, brought into the DJ booth for the DJ to choose which one he fancies the most. And it's this little boys club. And, you know, you are on the outside of that, and it's navigating your way in and trying to stay amongst, you know, all these male promoters because 99% it's males that are promoting the clubs and booking the DJ.
[Colleen]
You know, I never even realized that until you stated that in your book. And you mentioned, I think you said Hannah Holland, who I just met this past weekend for the first time. Lovely woman. Michelle Minetti. And there was somebody else you mentioned.
[Smokin Jo]
It was Nicole Rudebaugh, who's obviously a DJ now, but before she was a promoter.
[Colleen]
And that just never occurred to me. It's so strange. It's because now that I think about it, all the big promoters, most of them, I think we had a few, in the US is a little different. I think of Carmen D'Alessio was like the big promoter who really started in Studio 54. She used to go to the loft. So it's a little bit different. But yeah, I would say in the majority is. And, I never it never even occurred to me. I thought that was such an interesting point to make.
[Smokin Jo]
And they all kind of. I didn't realize they were all hanging out and going for drinks. And I had no idea this was going on. I just thought everyone was like me. You rock up to the club, you play, you go home.
[Colleen]
Well, that's the same with me as a woman alone, too. I really didn't go to after parties. I was saying to Adam, my husband, I said, there's one after party I went to once back to someone's flat. And it's because I knew their brother. And it was the Gruber Marduk guys like early on. I was like, only time I've ever done that because it was more about concern for my safety was number one. But also, I didn't want to look like the party girl because I thought they wouldn't take me seriously.
[Smokin Jo]
Funnily enough, they probably would have taken you more seriously if you got absolutely shit faced. Yeah, no, yeah. I definitely made more friends when I was getting really high with them.
When I was sober, it was like, oh, everyone stepped away a little bit.
[Colleen]
Yeah, OK, but maybe I should work on 56.
[Smokin Jo]
I don't know.
[Colleen]
No, but in any case, you did. You obviously had some challenges.
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah.
[Colleen]
With with drugs, which you go into.
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah. I think when you're brought up the way I was, you really kind of lost a little bit. And I just didn't love myself, hate myself. And the drugs took all those kind of feelings away. And, you know, I've been taking drugs since I was 11 years old. And I loved it, to be honest. And I never saw it as a negative. It's only when I got to the point I've been in the beat for seven years and it's kind of stopped working. And I was taking more and more and more. And I knew at that point I just wasn't happy.
And with all these amazing gigs and this profile and the money I was getting, I should have been really happy, but I wasn't. So that's when I decided to go off to rehab. Not that I'm an addict. And it's really weird saying that because I'm not. I know when to stop. It was just habitual. And I knew there was a reason behind it all.
[Colleen]
Yeah, that's really brave of you to do that as well. I mean, and also not even just your childhood, but also the lifestyle. Everybody around you is partying. And as you said, when you're doing three to four gigs in a night, it's like you have to stay awake and you have to be at your peak and you have to bring that energy to it. And it's a pitfall for everybody I think.
[Smokin Jo]
It is. And to be honest, it's just so normalized. And that's a problem for us in the music industry. It's not frowned upon really. Possibly now it's slightly different with social media, but it's like it's expected almost. If you say no to a line, it's like, oh, what's wrong with you? You know?
[Colleen]
I found that more in the UK.
[Smokin Jo]
Yes. Oh, I think the Americans are a little bit more professional than us.
[Colleen]
I mean, you look at the people who have lasted, you know, like like Louis Vega, Francois, I mean, they're like they're totally together people. And I think, yeah, I think it's a little bit different in the US than than the UK. I was quite surprised!
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah, when I when I went to play for Danny Vinyl, it was so funny because that was when New York was completely there was like no alcohol allowed in the clubs.
[Colleen]
That's right.
[Smokin Jo]
And I brought my whole crew with me. We were like, no drink! We were like, no way! We were so horrified! How's anyone doing this?
[Colleen]
I remember going on, I think it was a Virgin Atlantic flight from here to Miami for the Winter Music Conference from London for the first time, rather than New York. And they drank the plane dry.
[Smokin Jo]
Because we are the West.
[Colleen]
But you did pull yourself out of it. I mean, you really did. And it's why don't we talk a little bit more about that when we come back?
You know, I want to talk about how you pulled yourself out of this and where you where you're at right now. You're listening to Smokin Jo on Balearic Breakfast.
[Colleen]
And I'm back here with Smokin Jo on Balearic Breakfast. And you've been listening to her exclusive mix for us, which is wonderful. Jo, you were talking about the trials and tribulations of being a DJ, a globetrotting DJ. And, you know, it happens to so many people, you know, drugs become an issue, maybe not.
You weren't addicted, as you said, but it certainly became habitual, which is very, very easy for anyone to do in this in this business that we're in. But you managed to pull yourself out. How did you do that?
[Smokin Jo]
I just, you know, I had done loads of therapy in my 20s because of obviously being in the children's home and I was very depressed. So I'd already kind of looked in. And so I was very open to changing and knowing. I knew that was something wrong. So I just made the effort, went to rehab. You go for a month. So that's a whole month of no drug, no drink. And I'd never done that in my entire adulthood. So, you know, it was it was very eye opening.
I felt warm and and real again. It was like I'd lost myself. So it was very difficult to go back on the decks completely sober.
[Colleen]
That's what I was going to ask you about.
[Smokin Jo]
I didn't like it. Like I didn't like it because again, when you're shy, you'll use alcohol and drugs to mask. So I just didn't want people looking at me. I didn't want... I just didn't know how to figure this whole. How was I going to do it? But it took me about three, four months and I started to feel good again. And I think I was probably playing a lot better because I wasn't trashed. But the pros didn't like it. They were like, oh... You know, you don't want any coat. You don't want it. And I was like, no. So I definitely wasn't getting booked for some of the same things anymore, which is kind of odd.
[Colleen]
Oh, that's interesting...
[Smokin Jo]
Some of the crazier nights.
[Colleen]
Well, you know, I found that one of the reasons I think I was attracted to DJing is I am, you know, extroverted in some ways. I love communicating, but I am on the radio and a mic and I don't see anybody. I think DJing was another part of being slightly introverted as well, because, as you said, I could go off, be in my own space and work and have something to do without making small talk.
You know, I like yourself. I started on the dance floor dancing. I mean, that's every woman DJ I know. It was never like I just want to become a DJ right away. I was just a dancer and dancing. And it's... I think it was because I was slightly introverted that drew me to the decks. I'd be at a party. Everyone's talking and laughing. I'm like, oh, I feel like being on my own records. They put some of those on and that kind of a thing. And it's the same now with DJing. Let's talk about the difference too...
So we both started DJing at the same time. You're DJing in parties. You're not really on a pedestal. It's in a dark club. And now we often find ourselves on stage.
[Smokin Jo]
I just don't get it because there's nothing to see. Yeah, just playing records. And then all the focus then goes on to you rather than music. And then obviously you've got all these superstar, whatever you call it, Instagram type people who are just not real real DJs, but, you know, they haven't learned their craft, but they're just got supporters and followers and their hands in the air. And I just think we're losing the real art form and the kind of point of it, which is the music. You know, you don't need bright lights.
You know, the old days, it was one strobe. If you're lucky in the dark space and a really good sound system. So I do miss that. I really do. And I feel we're getting to a point now that people are realizing they need to kind of take a step back and maybe stop having phones on the dance floor, that kind of stuff, because that's ruined everything. Yeah.
[Colleen]
And there's been some great clubs that no longer have phones on the dance floor. I mean, I know that the Berghain does that, but I just played another club in Berlin that's very different to the Berghain that is called Heidegluhen. And again, no phones, and and and a lot of young people. And they're loving it because it's complete freedom to them. You know, I mean, for the first 30 years of my life, I didn't have a phone.
[Smokin Jo]
Exactly! I know we're so obsessed with phones, aren't we now? It's a shame. But I mean, social media is great for some things, but I think you need to know how to put it down.
[Colleen]
Exactly. Exactly. Now, one thing in your book is you regretted that you weren't making tracks and doing remixes as much in the 90s as your male counterpart DJs were doing. Is that because you weren't being asked?
[Smokin Jo]
There was yeah, there was a lot of not being asked. I didn't put myself forward for it, but also confidence thing. I just I was a DJ. Didn't mean I was going to be able to make the music. And obviously that's a whole different skill set. Luckily, Simon Dunmore from Defected had put me in the studio of Eric Koppel, which was which was fantastic. And he's one of my favorite producers at that time. So, you know, but I just knew I'd never going to be able to sit. I haven't got the patience to to do it myself.
So I've always used the engineer. And I was very busy traveling. I didn't have time or I didn't make time. I didn't put it as a priority. I didn't actually realize because, you know, someone like Carl Cox never made any tracks. And he was huge. And I didn't really feel like I needed to. But I realized later down the line that, yeah, it's important to have music out. And now I'm I'm making more. I'm loving it, actually.
[Colleen]
Tell us about what you're doing now.
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah, I'm working with like Ted Patterson, actually. I'm doing something with him.
[Colleen]
Yeah, I know he is such a great person and a great producer and a great DJ.
[Smokin Jo]
So I don't keep I was pestering him for ages, like, right. OK, honey, let's do it. Let's do it. So we're doing that. And I've just done a track with Shadow Child, D Ramirez on Faith. And then, yeah, I've got a couple of other bits. Can I come over? But yeah, definitely working a bit harder about that.
[Colleen]
And how does that feel?
[Smokin Jo]
It feels good. And I think I'm just a different person now. I've got confidence. I can say what I think. I think when you're in the studio, it can be quite intimidating. And you're like, oh, you've got an idea, but whether you want to share it, you know, it's the creative processes is ups and downs, isn't it? So I'm more willing to share and use my gut kind of thing.
[Colleen]
So, yeah, I think it's also our age. I mean, I'm in my fifties. I believe you're in your fifties as well. And in your fifties, you kind of give less of a shit what other people think.
[Smokin Jo]
Does that mean that? Yeah, you do, yeah.
[Colleen]
And you also maybe have a bit more experience to draw upon. So you realize, gosh, you know, I can inhabit this space just like other people can. And I have the experience and I have the credentials and I'm able to do that. So you have some tracks coming out and that's that's wonderful. I'm really glad to hear that. You also started to do something that combines another passion that you have, which is yoga.
So you're combining music and yoga. Can you tell us about that?
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah, well, I started doing yoga probably 18 years ago and it just really changed my life, as in it just kept me sane. And because I used to dance, I was trained as a dancer. I understood body movement and how it was really important for me. So being shy, I didn't want to teach yoga. But I had a boyfriend who was like, look, you should just why don't you give it a go? You've got a good voice. All this stuff I hated about myself. Suddenly it all kind of clicks into place. It's like, yeah, you've got really good voice for yoga because it's strong and it's clear. And, you know, yeah.
[Colleen]
You have a great voice.
[Smokin Jo]
Thank you. I always hated it.
[Colleen]
Oh, I love low voices. I love your voice.
[Smokin Jo]
Oh, I think they always say they like women with low voices and men with high voices as well. So, yeah, I just did the course and just realized that I found my voice. I enjoy teaching. And then I could make this wonderful playlist to go with the class. And people just love it. And it's a joy and a passion. But hard work, really hard work.
[Colleen]
I took one of your classes and it was hard work. I was like, oh, my God, I can't even do that. You know, I've been doing yoga for decades as well, but not on the level that you do it. One more thing about the book. You know, you are a shy person and you have written a very revealing book. I mean, you put it out there. How does it feel?
[Smokin Jo]
It feels great. I think which I've said to loads of people in skin, especially when she read it. She was like, God, I'm so jealous of you because you could write what you wanted. Because, you know, I don't have parents. My mom died 20 years ago and I don't have children. So I don't have a family that I'm in connection with. So I have no one to tell me, oh, my God, what have you done? So I just thought, you know what? Just put it out there. I'll probably never get a boyfriend again after this!
[Colleen]
Or you might get more!
[Smokin Jo]
But I felt I could be really honest. And I just thought it'd be interesting for people to see the other side. You know, I think a lot of people back in the day just thought I was a complete bitch because I didn't use to speak to them, but they didn't realize I was shy.
And I think it's important to know there's two sides to people. You know, you see this person on stage and they look very glamorous and they all look like, you know, they've got the world at their feet. They have no idea what's going on behind that. And I just wanted to kind of pull that little curtain over and say, look, half the time I'm struggling, you know?
[Colleen]
Wow. Well, it's it's a very I really admire you for writing this book. And, you know, I had tears when I read it, and I was I was amazed at the things you've gone through as well. Some shared experiences, but a lot of experiences that are completely unique to you. And and just to have those insights shared. I mean, it's so deep and profound.
And I really think you're a brave person for doing it. So just tell us about what's going on in the future for Smokin Jo.
[Smokin Jo]
Well, I mean, with the book, it's been going really well. I've had so much support. I've got a documentary being made about me in the book. So, yeah. And they're hoping to try and make that into a film. I'm kind of seeing Netflix series! So I studied film, funny enough, as well. And I absolutely love it. So this is like I'm so happy this is happening because I can really get my teeth stuck into it.
And, yeah, continuing to DJ, DJ is going really well and producing. Yeah. Trying to get a holiday squeeze in there.
[Colleen]
Got to get a holiday. You know as well that you have to have that kind of downtime, especially when you're in front of people all the time.
[Smokin Jo]
Oh, my God.
[Colleen]
And just giving your energy. Yeah.
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah.
[Colleen]
And you're getting it back.
[Smokin Jo]
Yeah. Obviously, it's reciprocal. But yeah, I just saw Honey was Honey D. John took two weeks off a couple of weeks ago. And I'm like, you know what? That is amazing to do that in the height of summer when you probably had a million gigs. It's like you just took that time because I used to say yes to everything. I went to Tokyo for one night because I had to get back for another gig. And it's just like, this is ridiculous.
[Colleen]
I know. Well, the pandemic kind of showed us that, you know, when the events were first to close and the last to reopen, I am sort of in a mindset like take it while you can get it. Take it while you can get it. And it's very hard to say no. I think for a freelancer in general, but also, you know, dance music can be kind of fickle. You can be hot today, not hot tomorrow. And you just want to seize the opportunities when you have them.
[Smokin Jo]
I get that. But I think, you know.
[Colleen]
But there's self-care.
[Smokin Jo]
There is that too.
[Colleen]
You know, I remember I wanted to interview PJ Harvey and he said, no, she's taking a year off. Oh, she had worked for years without taking a week off. So, you know...
Well, good luck with the book. It's a wonderful book. And again, it's called You Don't Need a Dick to DJ. And I can you know, I can definitely say that is a fact. It's a great title. And thank you so much. And the best of luck to you with all your future!
[Smokin Jo]
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed that!
COLLEEN'S NEWS
Wednesday, 18th September: Classic Album Sundays presents ‘Hard Candy’ with Ned Doheny (click here to buy the tickets) ;
Tuesday, 24th September at 8pm GMT Colleen will celebrate the 30th anniversary of Portishead's debut album 'Dummy' (click here to join Classic Album Sundays) ;
Monday, 14th October: Classic Album Sundays presents Saint Etienne at The British Library with National Album Day, celebrating the 'Foxbase Alpha' album with Sarah Cracknell, Bob Stanley and Pete Wiggs (click here to join the live stream).
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